Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla's Musk Paid at Least $593M in Income Taxes in 2016

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 155 posts

Re: Tesla's Musk Paid at Least $593M in Income Taxes in 2016

#111

Post by csallen »

mason240 wrote: post #110
frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially if you take into consideration how much Musk has personally benefitted from a well funded government. >Tesla Motors Inc., SolarCity Corp. and Space Exploration Technologies Corp., known as SpaceX, together have benefited from an estimated $4.9 billion in government support, according to data compiled by The Times. http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-2015...

The idea that he personally used $593M, much less $4.9B worth of government services in 2016 is pretty silly. He is far from being the sole owner of those companies.

The idea isn't that he personally cost the government that much money in service fees. It's that, without those services, he could never have made his money in the first place.

Re: Tesla's Musk Paid at Least $593M in Income Taxes in 2016

#112

Post by idbehold »

bmelton wrote: post #103
idbehold wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny that you mention highways since they wouldn't exist w/o tax revenue.

You clearly aren't aware of the many and myriad forms of highways we've had in America, including private toll highways, and the National Road, which was funded by the federal government, but predates the federal income tax by more than 100 years.

Again, I never mentioned income tax. Secondly Merriam-Webster defines a highway as "a public way" (e.g. not private).

Re: Tesla's Musk Paid at Least $593M in Income Taxes in 2016

#113

Post by amackera »

824ueirwfjd wrote: post #62
cprayingmantis wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that I would like to see their medical records but there was a lot of talk about medical records for public figures this past election cycle in the USA. It went so far that Mrs. Clinton offered up her records for review. http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/14/politics/clinton-campaign-rele... The truth is if you're going to be a public figure like a CEO or Elected Official you better be ready to give up some if n…

ceo of a private corporation === public figure?

CEO of a public corp maybe

Re: Tesla's Musk Paid at Least $593M in Income Taxes in 2016

#114

Post by lastyearman »

seeekr wrote: post #100
lastyearman wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could that be? Suppose Musk controlled all the resources in the world. What motivation would he have to allocate them fairly?

What motivation does he have right now to do all the things he does? So he got about $100M from the sale of Paypal a while back. He could have easily coasted on that and led an easy life and never have to work a day any more. Why didn't he? (I'm not glorifying him here by saying that he would allocate all the resources in the world fairly, neither that he should or should not be given that power, in our little though…

Whatever his motivations may be, we couldn't possibly allow any one person to decide over our finite resources. So, how to stop that from happening? Should there be a some kind of cap? Or maybe take some progressive amount from everyone based on some rules? And so forth.

Re: Tesla's Musk Paid at Least $593M in Income Taxes in 2016

#115

Post by kbenson »

embro wrote: post #53
submeta wrote: post #7

On the other hand this: "Elon Musk's growing empire is fueled by $4.9 billion in government subsidies" http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-2015...

Most big companies do get some form of subsidies. Tesla is nearly 30,000 jobs in the US alone. 5 Billions is not much for such a big company.

It's not even 5 billion for Tesla, it's 5 billion for Tesla, SpaceX and Solar City combined. Three large companies in what I would assume are some of the most subsidized industries in the U.S. (automotive, aerospace and power utilities).

Re: Tesla's Musk Paid at Least $593M in Income Taxes in 2016

#116

Post by propman »

accountyaccount wrote: post #40
throwaway999a wrote: post #36

It's very strange how people now seem to feel like they are entitled to see the tax returns of public or well-known figures. Tax returns are nobody else's business! Would you demand to see their medical records as well? The implicit subtext (especially with highly successful people like Musk) is that we do this to "make sure they pay their fair share". Here's the reality: the top 1% of US tax filers pay nearly half o…

I think people care that the rich pay a smaller proportionate rate[1] than the poor. People who make under $19k a year pay twice the rate of those making $470k+ Comparing total of taxes paid and leaving it at that is generally a tactic to distract from the proportion problem. 1. http://www.itep.org/whopays/full_report.php

45% of Americans pay 0 federal income tax. That is a very small rate

Re: Tesla's Musk Paid at Least $593M in Income Taxes in 2016

#117

Post by dmode »

snowpanda wrote: post #69
824ueirwfjd wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

13.3% actually... this is why I don't understand why anyone starts a company in California when you can go to other states like WA that have no income tax

And yet the roads in WA are still better than most of CA.

Ha ? CA has much better roads than WA outside of Bay Area. Also, if you look at the average tax burden it will come out to be the same. CA has very little property tax for commercial property for example and has lower alcohol and cigarette taxes. There are probably a few other areas where taxes in CA are lower than WA

Re: Tesla's Musk Paid at Least $593M in Income Taxes in 2016

#118

Post by koreyb »

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #86
ww520 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

44% tax rate is not too bad. Note that people with lots of money got their money by leveraging the system. A well run system is not cheap. The court system, the legal system, law enforcement, the education system, welfare, defense, etc all cost money. The higher percentage tax is only fair to pay back to the system that generates the big gain.

Especially if you take into consideration how much Musk has personally benefitted from a well funded government. >Tesla Motors Inc., SolarCity Corp. and Space Exploration Technologies Corp., known as SpaceX, together have benefited from an estimated $4.9 billion in government support, according to data compiled by The Times. http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-2015...

Here is a good breakdown of that $4.9bn number https://electrek.co/2015/06/02/complete-breakdown-of-the-4-9... Incentives for creating jobs & tax credits.

Not bad compared to the $12 billion cost for the GM bailout and $4 billion+/yr for oil & gas subsidies.

Re: Tesla's Musk Paid at Least $593M in Income Taxes in 2016

#119

Post by bmelton »

idbehold wrote: post #112
bmelton wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You clearly aren't aware of the many and myriad forms of highways we've had in America, including private toll highways, and the National Road, which was funded by the federal government, but predates the federal income tax by more than 100 years.

Again, I never mentioned income tax. Secondly Merriam-Webster defines a highway as "a public way" (e.g. not private).

By that definition, there are many government-run highways that must be excluded from the definition. Further, privately owned does not mean publicly inaccessible.

If your assertion is that you're referring to all forms of tax revenue, then your original post should probably not refer to tax rates. Otherwise, if you're just arguing in favor of all taxes, then it seems overly broad for a discussion on income tax revenue.

Either way, we've had public ways that existed without having been funded by any forms of taxation. Unless you're specifically attempting to pick the only definition of the word that bolsters your argument, while ignoring all other definitions, then it remains a truism that highways themselves do not exclusively originate from tax revenues, and are in fact capable of existing without taxes altogether... and it remains true whether or not one considers taxes to be universally good, bad, or anywhere in between.

Re: Tesla's Musk Paid at Least $593M in Income Taxes in 2016

#120

Post by danmaz74 »

seeekr wrote: post #100
lastyearman wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could that be? Suppose Musk controlled all the resources in the world. What motivation would he have to allocate them fairly?

What motivation does he have right now to do all the things he does? So he got about $100M from the sale of Paypal a while back. He could have easily coasted on that and led an easy life and never have to work a day any more. Why didn't he? (I'm not glorifying him here by saying that he would allocate all the resources in the world fairly, neither that he should or should not be given that power, in our little though…

Yes, what motivates somebody like musk after they earned 100m? Money? Or doing something relevant, challenging, satisfying? Real innovators aren't homo economicus, they don't do everything just to maximise future earnings...
Post reply on HN