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Tesla's Musk Paid at Least $593M in Income Taxes in 2016

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Re: Tesla's Musk Paid at Least $593M in Income Taxes in 2016

#61

Post by Theodores »

niroze wrote: post #9
neaanopri wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A narrow and literal reading of events makes Musk the richest african american. It's pretty depressing the richest african american is white

A lot of Africans are white, especially ones settled and controlled by Brits at some point.

In the UK there are lots and lots of people from South Africa, Zimbabwe and other places where things may have been good for their 'baby boomer' parents that got rich in deeply racist times, but for kids today?

If you are in your 20's or 30's or even 40's then having white skin in South Africa has not had the same advantages as before, there has been government legislation to make the place a bit more equal opportunity, which means to the younger people in South Africa that, if you are white, it is time to claim some type of UK passport (maybe based on some grandfather that was Scottish).

I am no defender of Apartheid but the ruling baby boomer white class essentially retired and threw their own children under the bus.

Re: Tesla's Musk Paid at Least $593M in Income Taxes in 2016

#62

Post by 824ueirwfjd »

cprayingmantis wrote: post #59
throwaway999a wrote: post #36

It's very strange how people now seem to feel like they are entitled to see the tax returns of public or well-known figures. Tax returns are nobody else's business! Would you demand to see their medical records as well? The implicit subtext (especially with highly successful people like Musk) is that we do this to "make sure they pay their fair share". Here's the reality: the top 1% of US tax filers pay nearly half o…

I'm not sure that I would like to see their medical records but there was a lot of talk about medical records for public figures this past election cycle in the USA. It went so far that Mrs. Clinton offered up her records for review. http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/14/politics/clinton-campaign-rele... The truth is if you're going to be a public figure like a CEO or Elected Official you better be ready to give up some if n…

ceo of a private corporation === public figure?

Re: Tesla's Musk Paid at Least $593M in Income Taxes in 2016

#63

Post by bmelton »

idbehold wrote: post #22
tdehollain wrote: post #13

That's $593M taxes on $1.34B earnings on exercising stock options...44% tax rate is pretty harsh!

Not really. Go look at the tax-rates of the 1950's. The only way he was able to acquire that much money was because of the infrastructure paid for by tax revenue. The only reason he wasn't robbed by someone else was because of the law enforcement paid for by tax revenue. I could go on, but I think you get the point. His wealth is built upon the shoulders of tax revenue.

Worth noting that he'd likely have netted about the same in the 1950s. Despite the constant assertions of those who fondly reminisce about the days of 90%+ income tax rates, there were so many more deductions that it all basically came out the same, while disincentivizing the outright hiding of wealth.

Moreover, the law enforcement that prevents him from being robbed is paid for by tax revenue, but not federal tax revenue, and the amount he's paid is in addition to the $593 million he paid in income tax (assuming that doesn't account for state income tax - the actual article isn't available for me to read right now due to server load).

Re: Tesla's Musk Paid at Least $593M in Income Taxes in 2016

#64

Post by hsod »

matt_wulfeck wrote: post #45
tunesmith wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got interested in the utility of money a while back and how the "value" of money is roughly logarithmic as it goes up. I found a couple of thought experiments regarding a "logarithmic flat tax". Anyway, going by that I think it's about right - it might still be a little bit high, though. Depending on how you calculate it those plans can be configured so that he should have paid more in the 35-40% range. Basically,…

Sounds like reasonable policy but incredibly obtuse. All taxpayers should be able to calculate and file their own taxes. The more complicated the easier to game and manipulate. I'll go as far as to say simplicity should be the driving motivation, not equality.

The proposed system seems a whole lot simpler than the existing one to me.

Re: Tesla's Musk Paid at Least $593M in Income Taxes in 2016

#65

Post by kareemm »

matt_wulfeck wrote: post #55
WJW wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the US maybe. Income tax in the Netherlands (my country) in the top bracket is 52%. On the second hand, we have no capital gains tax so he might come out ahead when exercising options. On the third hand, we have a wealth tax of 1.2% on your entire capital above a certain floor (of about 20k) so he might not come out ahead in the end. It's always interesting to see the opinions of different cultures about how much…

Not bad, but doesn't that come with social services like free medical care and greatly subsidized education? Here in he US the middle income pays taxes and receives almost no directive social benefit, as most social programs are geared towards lower income and the rich can afford accountants and lawyers to keep their tax burden very light.

I'm not sure how you can say that the rich keep their tax burden light when the topic of this thread is how Musk paid tax amounting to 44% of his income totalling over half a billion dollars.

Re: Tesla's Musk Paid at Least $593M in Income Taxes in 2016

#66

Post by maratd »

eastWestMath wrote: post #57
maratd wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I believe a boring company, hyperloop, other efforts in AI, etc. A more substantive question is how that money would be spent by the relevant parties. I would argue that Musk would spend it better than the federal government and as such, he should have it.

Then you'd end up having a fairly stupid argument about the semantics of "better".

Far better to have that conversation than to sit and argue fairness, equity, and justice. The alternatives are dumber.

Re: Tesla's Musk Paid at Least $593M in Income Taxes in 2016

#67

Post by ZeroGravitas »

adventured wrote: post #51
kolbe wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have to click any like to know that the US did not spend $5t on fossil fuel subsidies. I'm pretty sure the US only spent like $5t total in 2015, and most of that is in medicare and social security.

That $5 trillion figure isn't actually spending at all. It's entirely an invented figure, meant to supposedly cover all estimated environment damage for example. Really what it's meant to do, is be massive enough to enable people to throw it around when arguing in favor of obliterating the fossil fuel industry. Why does the invented aspect matter? Because it's comical. It leads to the premise that over just the next…

Imagine you ran a small, successful business. Imagine, as part of that business you killed someone every year.

Now, we could look at your tax returns and see that you have a successful business. Or we could "invent" some figure to represent the lives you ended.

Is it really crazy to imagine that the total we invent would be higher than your yearly, or even total profits?

Just scale that up to the point that you're starting wars, causing a crime epidemic with lead poisoning, overheating the planet, etc.

Re: Tesla's Musk Paid at Least $593M in Income Taxes in 2016

#68

Post by taketaketake »

ww520 wrote: post #41
tdehollain wrote: post #13

That's $593M taxes on $1.34B earnings on exercising stock options...44% tax rate is pretty harsh!

44% tax rate is not too bad. Note that people with lots of money got their money by leveraging the system. A well run system is not cheap. The court system, the legal system, law enforcement, the education system, welfare, defense, etc all cost money. The higher percentage tax is only fair to pay back to the system that generates the big gain.

Asserting your right to the fruits of another person's success is super easy! Why bother providing anything but the assertion, I say. And apparently you as well.

Re: Tesla's Musk Paid at Least $593M in Income Taxes in 2016

#69

Post by snowpanda »

824ueirwfjd wrote: post #60
jedberg wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He lives in California. 9% of that was to the state.

13.3% actually... this is why I don't understand why anyone starts a company in California when you can go to other states like WA that have no income tax

And yet the roads in WA are still better than most of CA.

Re: Tesla's Musk Paid at Least $593M in Income Taxes in 2016

#70

Post by wl »

SEJeff wrote: post #10

Not sure about everyone else, but I'd love to have this problem. Oh I have to pay $593 million in taxes? Boo hoo, let me cry all the way to the bank to write the check.

Funny enough, the IRS won't take a check that large. He'd have to write six of them. Definitely a problem I wish I had.

> No checks of $100 million or more accepted.

> The IRS can’t accept a single check (including a cashier’s check) for amounts of $100,000,000 ($100 million) or more. If you are sending $100 million or more by check, you’ll need to spread the payment over 2 or more checks with each check made out for an amount less than $100 million. This limit does not apply to other methods of payment (such as electronic payments). Please consider a method of payment other than check if the amount of the payment is over $100 million.

https://www.irs.gov/instructions/i1040gi/ar01.html#d0e35370

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