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H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

economist.com

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Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#451

Post by an_cap »

ikeyany wrote: post #447
an_cap wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're completely ignoring the substance of my question. Of course I understand that the US constitution doesn't allow racial discrimination. Surely its the case that racial discrimination is inherently bad and THEREFORE the US constitution prohibits it. Do you really want to hold the position that racial discrimination is bad BECAUSE the US constitution prohibits it? You seem to ascribe very special moral rights to…

> Why is the USG allowed to ban foreigners from coming to the US if they undercut American wages? It's in the interest of a nation to implement rules that boost its economy. Wanting foreigners to prosper over your own countrymen is akin to betraying your country. How is this ethical point even a question?

But wanting blacks to prosper over your fellow whites is surely not akin to betraying your race?

Your argument proves too much. Surely, you agree that its not okay to murder a foreigner if it boosts your country's economy. But you do think its okay to prevent your fellow American from hiring an Indian if it boosts America's economy. Why?

Note that I'm not arguing that you should be required to hire an Indian. I'm just saying that you shouldn't be allowed to prevent Bill Gates from hiring an Indian just because said Indian will do your job for half the money.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#452

Post by statictype »

rayiner wrote: post #435
clairity wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, absolutely. the kinds of folks that uproot themselves to move to a new country and culture to make a better life also tend to be interesting and add cultural richness as well. =)

I'm an immigrant from Bangladesh. My parents moved here when I was about 5 years old (my dad on an H1-B). I think folks like me, my parents, and other immigrants I know contribute a lot to America. At the same time, America has given us far more than we have given it. It has Americanized us, acculturated us into views and values that are better than what we would have been acculturated into had we stayed in Banglades…

It sounds like you're advocating vetting of immigrants. Was your father vetted before he came?

I too followed a similar path with parents migrating from South Asia.

What seems clear to me is that behaviour is a function of environment.

The same Bangladeshi that needs a bribe to put in the phone line isn't going to be demanding one when he sets it up for you in New Jersey.

(I don't think you even disagree with that)

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#453

Post by shripadk »

gragas wrote: post #446
shripadk wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm talking about Jewish ancestry (i.e., genetics), not Jewish faith This has nothing to do with genetics. If genetics was at play, you would have had Jews inventing and discovering prior to 20th century too. That is not the case (at least not comparable to amount of discoveries/inventions that happened in the 20th/21st century). This was because the Jews had a level playing field. The section of Wikipedia you quot…

>I'm sure our future generations (2-3 centuries from now) would be studying about Indians in the same way as we are studying about Ashkenazi Jews today. That is truly repulsive, man. I'm not sure why you have such a wet dream about being the smartest and most successful race/ethnicity/whatever, but I want nothing to do with it. It's honestly really off-putting. Also, you're COMPLETELY wrong about Jews having a level…

> That is truly repulsive, man. I'm not sure why you have such a wet dream about being the smartest and most successful race/ethnicity/whatever, but I want nothing to do with it. It's honestly really off-putting.

And what is more retarded is that you say exactly opposite to what I said: "I'm hoping they wouldn't label it as genetics and instead simply attribute it to access to quality education, wealth, prosperity, freedom and liberty."

I clearly state that it shouldn't be attributed to genetics. Only those who think their race/ethnicity/whatever is superior talk about genetics. You have a wet dream about Jews being a superior race. Read every answer of yours and you'll realize that I'm right. The fact is that most Jews were in the right place at the right time. Given the same opportunity to Indians we would have achieved the same. If you go back in history, you'll find that Science and Mathematics was way more advanced in Ancient India (called Bharat) than in any other country in the World. It was no coincidence that many nations tried to invade India. Even America was founded mainly because Christopher Columbus mistook it for India. Our civilization was destroyed by the invaders (first Islamic invasions and then followed by the British). Our thirst for knowledge, science, philosophy, astronomy and spirituality was replaced by defending our borders and fighting endless battles. We have suffered more than even the Jews. Read about the Biggest Holocaust in World History (And it's a Jew website.. Irony just died a painful death huh?): http://www.jewsnews.co.il/2014/12/31/islamic-india-the-bigge...

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#454

Post by shripadk »

gragas wrote: post #446
shripadk wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm talking about Jewish ancestry (i.e., genetics), not Jewish faith This has nothing to do with genetics. If genetics was at play, you would have had Jews inventing and discovering prior to 20th century too. That is not the case (at least not comparable to amount of discoveries/inventions that happened in the 20th/21st century). This was because the Jews had a level playing field. The section of Wikipedia you quot…

>I'm sure our future generations (2-3 centuries from now) would be studying about Indians in the same way as we are studying about Ashkenazi Jews today. That is truly repulsive, man. I'm not sure why you have such a wet dream about being the smartest and most successful race/ethnicity/whatever, but I want nothing to do with it. It's honestly really off-putting. Also, you're COMPLETELY wrong about Jews having a level…

And just so you know, there was a great Indian physicist by the name of Satyendra Nath Bose (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satyendra_Nath_Bose) whose work was even appreciated by Einstein. Quoting directly from Wiki: "Einstein, recognising the importance of the paper, translated it into German himself and submitted it on Bose's behalf to the prestigious Zeitschrift für Physik. As a result of this recognition, Bose was able to work for two years in European X-ray and crystallography laboratories, during which he worked with Louis de Broglie, Marie Curie, and Einstein"

Quoting from here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bose%E2%80%93Einstein_statisti...

"Bose adapted this lecture into a short article called "Planck's Law and the Hypothesis of Light Quanta"[1][2] and submitted it to the Philosophical Magazine. However, the referee's report was negative, and the paper was rejected. Undaunted, he sent the manuscript to Albert Einstein requesting publication in the Zeitschrift für Physik. Einstein immediately agreed, personally translated the article from English into German (Bose had earlier translated Einstein's article on the theory of General Relativity from German to English), and saw to it that it was published. Bose's theory achieved respect when Einstein sent his own paper in support of Bose's to Zeitschrift für Physik, asking that they be published together. This was done in 1924.[3]"

The worst part was that Nobel Prize was awarded for research related to concepts of Higgs-Boson, Bose-Einstein statistics and Bose-Einstein condensate. However, Bose himself was never awarded the Nobel Prize.

Quoting from the same article: "SN Bose's work on particle statistics (c. 1922), which clarified the behaviour of photons (the particles of light in an enclosure) and opened the door to new ideas on statistics of Microsystems that obey the rules of quantum theory, was one of the top ten achievements of 20th century Indian science and could be considered in the Nobel Prize class.[33]

When Bose himself was once asked that question, he simply replied, “I have got all the recognition I deserve”— probably because in the realms of science to which he belonged, what is important is not a Nobel, but whether one’s name will live on in scientific discussions in the decades to come.[34]"

There are many such Indian scientists in the 20th century who made immense contributions to Science and Technology but were never recognized by the West. Maybe it's racism, maybe it's indifference. But I'm sure the future generations will recognize these contributions without any prejudice whatsoever.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#455

Post by dang »

txmx2000 wrote: post #140

Americans don't get PhDs because graduate schools are flooded with applications from those trying to gain entry to the US. Once in industry foreigners tend to hire only members of their own race further discouraging Americans from pursuing advanced degrees. I think it's disgusting that you say you're contributing to my country as though, without you, these positions would go unfilled because Americans aren't intellig…

> I think it's disgusting that you say you're contributing to my country

> If this is what you believe you most certainly are not welcome.

I'm late to this thread but need to tell you that if you post like this again we will ban you. Racial and national flamewars are not ok on HN.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#456

Post by dang »

gragas wrote: post #200

>I assure you, most american-born students get a free pass in stanford/berkeley/CMU if you pit them against a foreign-born. You have no idea what you're talking about. I have first hand experience with this and Americans don't "get a free pass" by any means. Also, what about black people and hispanic people? Are they the lowest earners in America by far because they "don't want to make $$"? According to common consen…

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14145034 and marked it off-topic.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#457

Post by dang »

gragas wrote: post #245
jeevand wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not a miracle. Indians immigrating to US are more educated than the general US population [1] (40.6% have graduate degree, 32.3% have bachelor's). Have you also thought about why Indian American kids win spelling bee's or Jews win Nobel Prize disproportionately when compared to their population? Comparing Indians or Asians to blacks is not fair. They are mostly recent immigrants (except few brought in as labour…

>Have you also thought about why Indian American kids win spelling bee's or Jews win Nobel Prize disproportionately when compared to their population? You make me laugh. Indians are nowhere close to Jews. Sure, Indians make up 1% of the US population, but they also make up almost one fifth of Earth's population as a whole . There are more than one billion Indians on Earth. If you want to play the "maybe they're just…

You pushed what was already a flamewar into seriously worse territory with your comments here. We don't want uncivil comments like "You make me laugh" at the best of times, let alone in nasty spats about race.

Just because the rest of society is going crazy about this stuff doesn't mean you get to ditch your manners here. We've warned you about this before. If you want to keep posting here, please fix it.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#458

Post by ikeyany »

an_cap wrote: post #451
ikeyany wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is the USG allowed to ban foreigners from coming to the US if they undercut American wages? It's in the interest of a nation to implement rules that boost its economy. Wanting foreigners to prosper over your own countrymen is akin to betraying your country. How is this ethical point even a question?

But wanting blacks to prosper over your fellow whites is surely not akin to betraying your race? Your argument proves too much. Surely, you agree that its not okay to murder a foreigner if it boosts your country's economy. But you do think its okay to prevent your fellow American from hiring an Indian if it boosts America's economy. Why? Note that I'm not arguing that you should be required to hire an Indian. I'm jus…

In what universe is "race betrayal" not a racist code word? What the fuck.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#459

Post by MisterBastahrd »

gragas wrote: post #63
MisterBastahrd wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like you're a black and white sorta person and don't actually understand the nuance here. It's true that Trump's executive order accomplishes nothing in terms of how H1-Bs are processed. It's also true that his rhetoric has a chilling affect on potential immigrants and companies who do business with them. Schumer is right.

>Like all the other executive orders, it’s just words If that sentence isn't a contradiction to you, then I won't be able to convince you. Think for yourself. Schumer overstepped in the name of his political ends.

You're hopeless because you apparently don't have the capacity to understand context outside of small sentence fragments.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#460

Post by rayiner »

statictype wrote: post #452
rayiner wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an immigrant from Bangladesh. My parents moved here when I was about 5 years old (my dad on an H1-B). I think folks like me, my parents, and other immigrants I know contribute a lot to America. At the same time, America has given us far more than we have given it. It has Americanized us, acculturated us into views and values that are better than what we would have been acculturated into had we stayed in Banglades…

It sounds like you're advocating vetting of immigrants. Was your father vetted before he came? I too followed a similar path with parents migrating from South Asia. What seems clear to me is that behaviour is a function of environment. The same Bangladeshi that needs a bribe to put in the phone line isn't going to be demanding one when he sets it up for you in New Jersey. (I don't think you even disagree with that)

> It sounds like you're advocating vetting of immigrants.

I'm advocating rate-limiting immigration to a level that allows us to comfortably absorb and Americanize the people coming in.

> What seems clear to me is that behavior is a function of environment.

The "environment" is created by people. If you plop 10 Bangladeshis into New Jersey, they will conform to the environment. If you plop 10,000 Bangladeshis into New Jersey, you will have imported the environment from Bangladesh to New Jersey.

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