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Vanguard Is Growing Faster Than Everybody Else Combined

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Re: Vanguard Is Growing Faster Than Everybody Else Combined

#131

Post by aminorex »

posguy wrote: post #104
cJ0th wrote: post #100

The fact that Vanguard is growing faster than everybody else combined is interesting indeed. The article itself, however, reads like one big ad for Vanguard. The fact that the NYT is somewhat affiliated with them ("They number well over 20 million and include New York Times employees: Vanguard runs the company’s 401(k) retirement plans.") doesn't help either. What I miss is a critical examination of the situation. Th…

Its the plight of the newsreader, whereby you add nothing when writing about a subject, do no research on it, and avoid thinking critically about the news you've been told to publish or read to the viewers on TV. Newsreaders are not journalists, and being unable to form an opinion of their own, they are often willing to regurgitate anything their sources tell them without fail.

I'll go one step further:

"Journalists" are not journalists, and being unable to form an opinion of their own, they are often willing to regurgitate anything their sources tell them without fail.

Re: Vanguard Is Growing Faster Than Everybody Else Combined

#132

Post by StavrosK »

martinml wrote: post #98
StavrosK wrote: post #91

I would very much like to invest in index funds, but Vanguard need a social security number, which I don't have. Does anyone know of an alternative that doesn't require an SSN, or something comparable to Vanguard in the EU?

You would have to go through a EU bank who would act as a middleman. There are many of them that have zero fees so it would be practically like if you were investing directly with Vanguard.

Ah, that's an interesting suggestion, thank you. Do you know any banks, or what I could search for to find them? I'm clueless about this, I'm afraid.

Re: Vanguard Is Growing Faster Than Everybody Else Combined

#133

Post by StavrosK »

tonfa wrote: post #94
StavrosK wrote: post #91

I would very much like to invest in index funds, but Vanguard need a social security number, which I don't have. Does anyone know of an alternative that doesn't require an SSN, or something comparable to Vanguard in the EU?

Do you know about ETF? Most of the Vanguard mutual funds have an ETF version.

I'm afraid I'm not very up to speed, all I know is that I want index funds, basically. I have heard of ETFs, but not in any great detail.

Re: Vanguard Is Growing Faster Than Everybody Else Combined

#134

Post by StavrosK »

peferron wrote: post #109
StavrosK wrote: post #91

I would very much like to invest in index funds, but Vanguard need a social security number, which I don't have. Does anyone know of an alternative that doesn't require an SSN, or something comparable to Vanguard in the EU?

Can you request an ITIN?

I don't know what that is, I'm afraid. Is it something Vanguard would provide? If it's a US government thing, I don't live in the US, I would just like to invest in index funds (so anything that resembles Vanguard is fine with me).

Re: Vanguard Is Growing Faster Than Everybody Else Combined

#135

Post by bike4beer »

headmelted wrote: post #125

As a Vanguard customer, I can understand why people are so enthusiastic about their products, and have known for a while that passive investment, and Vanguard in particular, was growing while active management was on the decline. At no point did I think the difference in inflows was anywhere close to 8.5x. And it does worry me. I'm familiar with the contention that even having some active players in the market will a…

About ten years ago I sold some real estate and moved some money into a Vangaurd fund it was easy, took a few minutes to setup the account online, and transfer from my credit union to the fund. Done.

Five years later I tried to get the money back, I tried online but the website always failed and told me to reset my password. Finally after months I called, after hours of waiting on the phone ( skype ) I was told it was a tech problem, and need to talk to tech. After months of playing tag I finally got past the password and it said that the new password was sent to my mail, but I have to 'login' to read the mail, and they will not send your mail 'internet mail', so now I can't get any communication, and still can't access.

Whenever I call its always the same problem, its non-english speaking people, also they only do telephone support a few hours a day, its not 24 hours like say Fidelity.

So now its been 10+ years, and I have never been able to make a withdrawl, when I call I always get a run around, there is no Vanguard office where I live, so there is no 'face' to make demands. When I make requests I never get a response.

In summary, Vangaurd is a black-hole; Be careful I'm glad in this case its only $10k, I'm sure by the time I ever need the money they'll say it was an abandoned account the money passed to gov, most country's have such laws where an account abandoned say 3+ years the money goes to the general fund.

Anybody else here have a similar 'vanguard story to tell'?

Re: Vanguard Is Growing Faster Than Everybody Else Combined

#136

Post by lolc »

Applejinx wrote: post #127

If this is not an Enron-like foreshadowing, it says something rather dark. It certainly looks like a 'bubble is about to pop' indicator, though it's generalized to the whole financial sector (to the extent that a blind index fund represents it, at least). If it does pop, it suggests that an industry that is on average not as good as its own average, is itself overvalued (as numerous other comments strongly imply). If…

They don't own the assets hey manage, so they can't overvalue and go pop like Enron did.

Ways to pop Vanguard:

- Pop the stock market

- Game their indexes

- Insider trading

You notice how a lot of people are already trying to do all three so it's not easy to pop Vanguard.

Re: Vanguard Is Growing Faster Than Everybody Else Combined

#137

Post by thisrod »

loeg wrote: post #57
Animats wrote: post #48

With index funds so big, who determines prices? An index fund tied to the S&P 500 just buys stocks in the proportion that they're in the S&P 500. The price of the stock plays no role in that decision. At some point, this has to create problems, but so far it hasn't. It does mean the active traders, who are basically moving the same money around all day, have an outsized influence on prices. Index funds are so success…

> With index funds so big, who determines prices? ... At some point, this has to create problems, but so far it hasn't. Any active trader remaining in the market. Fortunately, active traders still make up a large part of the market. And the bigger indices grow, the larger the opportunities for active traders to profit. It's not a real problem — it's self-correcting.

Does anyone know what fractions of American equity currently belong to active and index investors? That seems like an important question, but the article doesn't address it.

Re: Vanguard Is Growing Faster Than Everybody Else Combined

#138

Post by aembleton »

StavrosK wrote: post #91

I would very much like to invest in index funds, but Vanguard need a social security number, which I don't have. Does anyone know of an alternative that doesn't require an SSN, or something comparable to Vanguard in the EU?

Vanguard exists in the UK: https://www.vanguard.co.uk/uk/portal/home.jsp

Re: Vanguard Is Growing Faster Than Everybody Else Combined

#139

Post by StavrosK »

aembleton wrote: post #138
StavrosK wrote: post #91

I would very much like to invest in index funds, but Vanguard need a social security number, which I don't have. Does anyone know of an alternative that doesn't require an SSN, or something comparable to Vanguard in the EU?

Vanguard exists in the UK: https://www.vanguard.co.uk/uk/portal/home.jsp

Ah, fantastic, I was just looking for that, thank you. It's odd how little a search turns up, "Vanguard Europe" wasn't very informative.

Re: Vanguard Is Growing Faster Than Everybody Else Combined

#140

Post by galfarragem »

VMG wrote: post #102
galfarragem wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Resuming, as I understand it: Good stock pickers > Index Funds (blind money) > Bad stock pickers By investing on index funds you are betting in the average of the average (a fund is already an average of undervaluated and overvaluated stocks). However, by investing on managed funds your probability of having profits over index funds is low: even if stock pickers that beat the market (by definition) amount to 50%, ext…

> Why not invest on a good stock picker? You can only tell them after the fact

Sure, but I still prefer to bet on Buffett than on a managed fund that is consistently beated by the market.

[edited]

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