Vanguard Is Growing Faster Than Everybody Else Combined • Hacker News Board

Re: Vanguard Is Growing Faster Than Everybody Else Combined

#101

Post by q-base » Wed, Apr 19, 2017, 8:57 AM UTC

Think I may need to dig deeper into this. But a few questions that one of you may be able to answer. Seems like you won't get super large returns but on the other hand you won't risk super large losses either.

But sounds like instead of having cash on a bank account, earning no interest, it may be worth putting them into EFT's? Or have I totally misunderstood? Is it only possible to tie your money up for longer periods for instance?

Any caveats as Dane looking at Vanguard? Fee's, cross rates or other I may have missed in this?

Re: Vanguard Is Growing Faster Than Everybody Else Combined

#102

Post by VMG » Wed, Apr 19, 2017, 9:03 AM UTC

galfarragem wrote: post #99

bdonlan wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Index funds buy or sell blindly, at whatever the prevailing best price is. Naturally, if there were only index funds in the market, the price would vary randomly. That being said, consider what would happen if stock prices did start to vary randomly - if you had actual research suggesting the price was too high or too low, you could trade accordingly. This would net you a profit, and also help push the price in the o…

Resuming, as I understand it: Good stock pickers > Index Funds (blind money) > Bad stock pickers By investing on index funds you are betting in the average of the average (a fund is already an average of undervaluated and overvaluated stocks). However, by investing on managed funds your probability of having profits over index funds is low: even if stock pickers that beat the market (by definition) amount to 50%, ext…

> Why not invest on a good stock picker?

You can only tell them after the fact

Re: Vanguard Is Growing Faster Than Everybody Else Combined

#103

Post by dv35z » Wed, Apr 19, 2017, 9:05 AM UTC

nugget wrote: post #7

Anyone who wants to learn more about passive index investing should check out Bogleheads (bogleheads.org). My second favorite forum after HN.

Agreed - Intelligent, civil, and welcoming. Been reading (& posting occasionally) since 2007. The demographic tends to skew older, so there is a lot of life experience behind some of the commsnts. Check it out!

Re: Vanguard Is Growing Faster Than Everybody Else Combined

#104

Post by posguy » Wed, Apr 19, 2017, 9:05 AM UTC

cJ0th wrote: post #100

The fact that Vanguard is growing faster than everybody else combined is interesting indeed. The article itself, however, reads like one big ad for Vanguard. The fact that the NYT is somewhat affiliated with them ("They number well over 20 million and include New York Times employees: Vanguard runs the company’s 401(k) retirement plans.") doesn't help either. What I miss is a critical examination of the situation. Th…

Its the plight of the newsreader, whereby you add nothing when writing about a subject, do no research on it, and avoid thinking critically about the news you've been told to publish or read to the viewers on TV.

Newsreaders are not journalists, and being unable to form an opinion of their own, they are often willing to regurgitate anything their sources tell them without fail.

Re: Vanguard Is Growing Faster Than Everybody Else Combined

#105

Post by zeroer » Wed, Apr 19, 2017, 9:06 AM UTC

silverpikezero wrote: post #61

yalogin wrote: post #59

Vanguard is the reason why Betterment and wealth front never made any sense to me. There is no way they can be better than just putting in vanguard funds myself. I still do t understand what their value proposition is.

Tax Loss Harvesting. This is the sole reason why Betterment(/Wealthfront) is superior to Vanguard. The benefits of this technique more than offset any fees they charge.

That's really debatable. After 10~15 years of investment in Betterment or Wealthfront, in all likelihood all of your investments will be in the black, and there will be no opportunities for loss harvesting. But you're still stuck paying the 25 basis points per year unless you sell (and thus incur the capital gains, anyways).

Re: Vanguard Is Growing Faster Than Everybody Else Combined

#106

Post by hueving » Wed, Apr 19, 2017, 9:11 AM UTC

gcb0 wrote: post #84

bdonlan wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Index funds buy or sell blindly, at whatever the prevailing best price is. Naturally, if there were only index funds in the market, the price would vary randomly. That being said, consider what would happen if stock prices did start to vary randomly - if you had actual research suggesting the price was too high or too low, you could trade accordingly. This would net you a profit, and also help push the price in the o…

stock prices Do vary randomly.

Random walk depends on all participants acting rationally based on the same information released at the same time. However, index funds are not rational, they always buy in the same ratios regardless of news.

Re: Vanguard Is Growing Faster Than Everybody Else Combined

#107

Post by spinchange » Wed, Apr 19, 2017, 9:12 AM UTC

puranjay wrote: post #40

kevindong wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you say Vanguard will collapse?

Stretch the timescale long enough and everything will collapse. In the case of financial institutions, this timescale is often within a human lifespan. So you might be wrong today, might be wrong tomorrow, but if you bet on failure, you will eventually be right.

Your bet can remain wrong longer than you can remain solvent.

Re: Vanguard Is Growing Faster Than Everybody Else Combined

#108

Post by hueving » Wed, Apr 19, 2017, 9:13 AM UTC

SwellJoe wrote: post #89

ilyagr wrote: post #22

Vanguard seems to have gone a bit too far with cost-cutting in the customer services department. One of my most frustrating recent experiences was dealing with Vanguard's website and customer service. There were all kinds of issues, some minor annoyances, others serious time sinks. Here's an excerpt from a long and boring story: ... One day, I couldn't log in to their website. Attempting to go through "forgot my pass…

I don't understand how companies like that can thrive (but many do). If I have to pick up the phone to solve a problem even once, I'm angry. If I have to call them twice, I'm looking at alternatives. I may decide not to switch if the alternatives are even worse...but, I'm looking to get out of the shitty relationship I find myself in with that company. (This frustration is fresh in my mind because Security Metrics ju…

You can't really switch 401k providers when your employer picks them.

Re: Vanguard Is Growing Faster Than Everybody Else Combined

#109

Post by peferron » Wed, Apr 19, 2017, 9:14 AM UTC

StavrosK wrote: post #91

I would very much like to invest in index funds, but Vanguard need a social security number, which I don't have. Does anyone know of an alternative that doesn't require an SSN, or something comparable to Vanguard in the EU?

Can you request an ITIN?

Re: Vanguard Is Growing Faster Than Everybody Else Combined

#110

Post by ivoras » Wed, Apr 19, 2017, 9:14 AM UTC

It makes me a bit sad that such index funds are not available in my part of the world - even though this is one of the shittiest countries in the EU, services like these are needed precisely because all the other services are so bad.