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Whistleblower uncovers London police hacking of journalists and protestors

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Re: Whistleblower uncovers London police hacking of journalists and protestors

#71

Post by scribu »

ak4g wrote: post #56
acd wrote: post #49

Its an issue when you self censor opinions which deviate from the mass. It also an issue of freedom of press. The government know who you talk to through metadata collection even if you use encryption.

I find myself self-censoring on topics like this, not because of what I (don't) fear is being done by authorities, but because I can't help but to note that we're not, in fact, living in some Orwellian dystopia, and that seemingly the surveillance that is being done is promulgating a safe and stable society, but not toeing the sky-is-falling line doesn't do much for those numbers by my username. Meanwhile, there are…

> We have a society where we can air discussions about topics like this

What's the use of being able to freely discuss any story if the people who's job is to uncover sensitive stories are silenced?

Re: Whistleblower uncovers London police hacking of journalists and protestors

#72

Post by adrianN »

ak4g wrote: post #44
cies wrote: post #38

> police hacking of journalists and protestors Because they are the real terrorists. I seriously think they had dissidents in mind when pushing for all those "anti-terror" surveillance laws.

If this was illegal surveillance, then obviously it wasn't within the scope of what's allowed by said anti-terror laws. This doesn't add up for me yet, because I don't understand what the supposed motive is. Do the police have much interest in journalists accounts? I mean really, what's the thinking here? Are London police ignoring murders of journalists? The UK is hardly an autocracy. Frankly we should wait to see w…

Once you set up the technology that enables this kind of police work, laws rarely suffice to stop its use.

Re: Whistleblower uncovers London police hacking of journalists and protestors

#73

Post by snovv_crash »

andy_ppp wrote: post #24
alexbeloi wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only time people in power make concessions is when there is a credible threat to them maintaining that power.

If you can suggest one?

Look at the peaceful transition in South Africa. Do you think that would have happened if the old government thought they could keep hanging on?

Re: Whistleblower uncovers London police hacking of journalists and protestors

#74

Post by DanBC »

adrianN wrote: post #72
ak4g wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this was illegal surveillance, then obviously it wasn't within the scope of what's allowed by said anti-terror laws. This doesn't add up for me yet, because I don't understand what the supposed motive is. Do the police have much interest in journalists accounts? I mean really, what's the thinking here? Are London police ignoring murders of journalists? The UK is hardly an autocracy. Frankly we should wait to see w…

Once you set up the technology that enables this kind of police work, laws rarely suffice to stop its use.

No one has set up the technology that allows this, which is why the police had to break the law and use hackers outside the country to do this.

The police had legal surveillance powers available to them, but chose not to use them.

Now they face both disciplinary action and criminal prosecution; and the victims can sue for damages.

Re: Whistleblower uncovers London police hacking of journalists and protestors

#75

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

richmarr wrote: post #70
cies wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The UK is hardly an autocracy. Not only autocracies do this kind of evil. Especially now that the (deeps state) ruling class consists mainly of capitalist, you can see that the police targeting dissidents fits a clear motive.

> Especially now that the (deeps state) ruling class consists ... Sorry I don't think you should state conspiracy theories as fact without someone calling you on it. There are reasons for police to spy on activists (even illegally) without needing to assert the existence of a "deep state" EDIT: to clarify, above where I say "reasons" I mean just that, not "reasons that I necessarily agree with"

And those reasons would be... what?

These are people with political views the government disapproves of. They are not bomb-throwing anarchists or people with a history of violence. They are not organising or threatening acts of public violence.

This is entirely a free speech issue.

Re: Whistleblower uncovers London police hacking of journalists and protestors

#77

Post by tremon »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #41
notliketherest wrote: post #2

London? Why does anyone have an anticipation of privacy in the UK? This is the city with police cameras on every block, surveillance vans, and a prime minister who literally called the privacy of encryption evil.

>> Why does anyone have an anticipation of privacy in the UK? Because article 8 of the ECHR guarantees it and the courts generally uphold it. I haven't researched beyond this article but it clearly says what the Met is/was doing is/was illegal.

Which is why PM May has been saying she wants the UK to leave both the EU and the Council of Europe.

Re: Whistleblower uncovers London police hacking of journalists and protestors

#78

Post by dagenleg »

ak4g wrote: post #56
acd wrote: post #49

Its an issue when you self censor opinions which deviate from the mass. It also an issue of freedom of press. The government know who you talk to through metadata collection even if you use encryption.

I find myself self-censoring on topics like this, not because of what I (don't) fear is being done by authorities, but because I can't help but to note that we're not, in fact, living in some Orwellian dystopia, and that seemingly the surveillance that is being done is promulgating a safe and stable society, but not toeing the sky-is-falling line doesn't do much for those numbers by my username. Meanwhile, there are…

Very good post, comrade! Remember to use your primary account when your comments are ideologically sound, this will ensure your Good Citizen points will get properly calculated.

Re: Whistleblower uncovers London police hacking of journalists and protestors

#80

Post by [deleted] »

andy_ppp wrote: post #11
dbcooper wrote: post #3

That article is based on an article and an opinion piece that were published in the Guardian last month: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/22/whistl... https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/21/ipcc-investi...

You make it sound as if the article was written by a journalist, not a person who had been leaked to and is a part of the story. Anyway, that whistle blower and the leaker could both get 14 years under proposed anti-whistleblower laws: The Guardian failed to point out in its report that new legislation proposed by the Law Commission would make the author of the anonymous letter, Jones herself, and the journalists at…

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