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H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

economist.com

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Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#81

Post by ta78637 »

abeyer wrote: post #72
tejaswiy wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ignoring the TCS jibe, there have been several succesful startup founders that have initially held an H1. http://tech.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/startups/india... I don't care enough to validate if everyone on that list held a H1 at some point, but they're all born in India and went on to start large companies in the US and were likely on a H1 at some point. And this list ignores people of all other nationalit…

Is the TCS jibe not appropriate? And I think it was part of the GP's point...I suspect there is a big difference between the people who come in on H1B's to the top tech firms and those who come in on H1B's to TCS et al to outsource helpdesk services at a random F500. I don't have a lot of experience with Tata and their ilk, but from what little I've seen, and everything I've heard, it sounds like they are just as bad…

Right. Additionally, I personally wonder what effect lowering wages and worsening working conditions in entry level tech jobs has on the domestic talent pipeline.

That is, how many American students meditate on the ineffable mysteries of the efficient market hypothesis and then decide, hey, marketing is an easy major and the job prospects aren't that much worse than tech. Better -- how many did that in 2002?

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#82

Post by pm90 »

prasadjoglekar wrote: post #20
ta78637 wrote: post #7

Article's concluding sentences: "Reducing the number of visas for TCS and its brethren would probably result in them shifting work to India. A better change would be to end the rule whereby H-1B recipients must stay with the company that sponsored them. For within their ranks may lurk the next Elon Musk or Sergey Brin." Personally I find this line of thought (cliche?) frustrating. Not just because apparently us prole…

The H1 visa prohibits all paid work except for the sponsoring employer. This lock-in is precisely what makes these visas lucrative to TCS etc. Removing the lack of mobility will remove a big perverse incentive.

While it is a big incentive for sure, I wouldn't be so quick to dismissive it as the main incentive. A lot of the people who are "indentured servants" (as the people here like to say) are not really the kind of people who would "jump ship". In fact, the selection process is already such that only the really pliant ones are sent to the US.

Which makes me doubt whether this step would make any difference to the problem of H1B abuse. However, it would make a HUGE difference for those who are not abusing the system.

Disclosure: I'm on an H1B visa. Of course I want it to be easier to change employer. Who doesn't? Its like a fundamental right.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#83

Post by Shivetya »

inlinefordecade wrote: post #71
molyss wrote: post #10

"Given that the unemployment rate for college graduates sits at 2.5%, it is fair to say that most native workers displaced by H-1Bs land on their feet." That's completely ignoring the fact that if you have cheaper workers, you end up being underpaid and/or doing a job you'd rather not be doing. Unemployment rate alone don't tell the whole story, and failing to acknowledge that sounds like poor/partial journalism to m…

To me it appears TCS and Infosys are being made the fall guys to keep the existing system of Indentured servitude in place for another decade or more. [edit:] Real villain is Microsoft, which has the largest lobbyists machine among the software companies in D.C. to make sure they are able to keep their indenture servants for as many years as possible.

this is happening all over the US with all sorts of companies. I have seen entire departments minus management go this way, its not just a Microsoft phenomenon. BI is the most saturated area in my experience.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#84

Post by droopyEyelids »

sytelus wrote: post #78
diebir wrote: post #48

Of course they ought to just increase the number of H1-B visas... They have always been a drop in the bucket on the technology market, even in the worst times (2001 and 2009). These are the future immigrants that we want in the US, highly educated, driven, mobile upwards and ready to buy a house. If you can't find a job or compete with H1-Bs in this economy you probably should consider another occupation. I work for…

...

Don't forget the H1B visa holder is forbidden from doing other work for profit.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#85

Post by inlinefordecade »

dpweb wrote: post #80
molyss wrote: post #10

"Given that the unemployment rate for college graduates sits at 2.5%, it is fair to say that most native workers displaced by H-1Bs land on their feet." That's completely ignoring the fact that if you have cheaper workers, you end up being underpaid and/or doing a job you'd rather not be doing. Unemployment rate alone don't tell the whole story, and failing to acknowledge that sounds like poor/partial journalism to m…

Average US salary is 45k. Median is 30k. You would think we could train some US persons to do these high skilled jobs. They may like the raise.

It is not about the salary. Real incentive with H1-B is you get "indenture servants", as long as that incentive is in place the abuse will continue.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#86

Post by nandemo »

jcriddle4 wrote: post #28

unemployment rate ... 2.5%. This study has 5.6% unemployment and under employment at 12.6% http://www.epi.org/publication/class-of-2016/

The article is talking about college graduates in general. The study you linked to is about young college graduates (age 21 to 24).

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#87

Post by pm90 »

s73ver wrote: post #49
davidw wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry guys, but voting his comments down do not change the laws of economics. If someone in Romania can do your job - with the same quality - at 1/10th the price, the market will find a way to move the work there. In most cases, it really isn't equivalent and the price difference isn't that much for really qualified people, but shutting out lots of talented people might tilt things in that direction.

Except the market already tried that, with pretty poor results.

What exactly do you mean? All the major US tech companies (and plenty of minor ones as well) have huge India offices. If they were delivering "pretty poor results", they wouldn't still be operating.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#88

Post by inlinefordecade »

Shivetya wrote: post #83
inlinefordecade wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me it appears TCS and Infosys are being made the fall guys to keep the existing system of Indentured servitude in place for another decade or more. [edit:] Real villain is Microsoft, which has the largest lobbyists machine among the software companies in D.C. to make sure they are able to keep their indenture servants for as many years as possible.

this is happening all over the US with all sorts of companies. I have seen entire departments minus management go this way, its not just a Microsoft phenomenon. BI is the most saturated area in my experience.

MSFT has the biggest lobbying presence in DC and all tech companies follow MSFT's lead.

The history is that during Bill Clinton's Presidency (in the 1990's), there was an attempt to split MSFT up into 3 because of alleged monopolistic behavior. MSFT responded by building up the most formidable lobbying operation DC has ever seen from any Tech company.

After the threat of splitting up MSFT was defeated, they turned their attention to Immigration policy and got passed the AWICA and AC-21 acts which directly resulted in our indentured servitude. MSFT lobbyists are the founders and architects of the "indentured servitude". They have been very unhelpful with any attempts to free people.

Because MSFT has this formidable lobbying infrastructure, in matters of common interest (like H1-B), all Tech companies essentially follow MSFT's lead (or just outsource their immigration lobbying to MSFT).

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#89

Post by red_hairing »

cryptarch wrote: post #61
mikestew wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some accounts are dead on arrival due to previous posts. Though in digging through the comments of the account you reference, I can't find anything egregious, so I vouched for the comment. Personally, I would like to see HN quit the juvenile, passive-aggressive shadow ban. If for no other reason than it seems it is buggy at times, and banning accounts that don't need it. But I don't make the rules.

It's a security by obscurity thing, right? Let the spammers think they're being seen but ignored? I don't really feel an obligation to not speak about it though, I didn't choose to get showdead privileges and never heard anything about it.

spammers? or dissidents?

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#90

Post by usernametbd »

inlinefordecade wrote: post #71
molyss wrote: post #10

"Given that the unemployment rate for college graduates sits at 2.5%, it is fair to say that most native workers displaced by H-1Bs land on their feet." That's completely ignoring the fact that if you have cheaper workers, you end up being underpaid and/or doing a job you'd rather not be doing. Unemployment rate alone don't tell the whole story, and failing to acknowledge that sounds like poor/partial journalism to m…

To me it appears TCS and Infosys are being made the fall guys to keep the existing system of Indentured servitude in place for another decade or more. [edit:] Real villain is Microsoft, which has the largest lobbyists machine among the software companies in D.C. to make sure they are able to keep their indenture servants for as many years as possible.

Why is Microsoft villain? Does it provide its H1B employees below market salary? Genuinely asking as I've seen H1B employees at MS paid a huge salary, equal to their citizen counterparts, and also they've been freely jumping companies to get an even bigger pay raise.
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