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H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

economist.com

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Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#51

Post by davidw »

s73ver wrote: post #49
davidw wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry guys, but voting his comments down do not change the laws of economics. If someone in Romania can do your job - with the same quality - at 1/10th the price, the market will find a way to move the work there. In most cases, it really isn't equivalent and the price difference isn't that much for really qualified people, but shutting out lots of talented people might tilt things in that direction.

Except the market already tried that, with pretty poor results.

If there's enough disparity in pay for equivalent quality (something that is not quite as easy to get right), it'll keep trying.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#52

Post by guelo »

gragas wrote: post #29
vmarsy wrote: post #5

Related, Trump's executive order from today which mentions H-1Bs : https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/04/18/presi... And a quote from the NYT article[1]: “This does nothing,” said Senator Charles Schumer of New York, the Democratic leader. “Like all the other executive orders, it’s just words — he’s calling for new studies. It’s not going to fix the problem. It’s not going to create a single job.” [1] h…

>Like all the other executive orders, it’s just words The hypocrisy here is truly disgusting. One moment, executive orders are the end of the world. The next moment, they don't mean anything at all. If a person can't see past this man's partisanship, then they are hopeless; when reason and logic are out the window, it's over. For those who want evidence from the mouth of Chuck Schumer himself [1]: >Schumer said that…

It's pretty easy to read the executive order yourself. Sec. 5 (b) is the section in question: https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/04/18/presi...

"shall, as soon as practicable, suggest reforms" is the actual meat of it.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#53

Post by s73ver »

anindha wrote: post #26
Zigurd wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are correct. But there are market solutions: If visas were auctioned like spectrum, only high value positions would be filled by H1-Bs, which would actually implement the stated purpose of enabling only those who cannot be found domestically to get H1-Bs. And it would largely prevent H1-Bs from lowering wages. AND that "lurking Sergey Brin" would be more likely to be found among those high-value candidates.

The problem is startups would find it hard to hire since it's hard to value equity in a visa application.

There's a lot of things startups can't afford. And most startups are just fine with local talent.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#54

Post by guelo »

wtf_is_up wrote: post #36
gragas wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Like all the other executive orders, it’s just words The hypocrisy here is truly disgusting. One moment, executive orders are the end of the world. The next moment, they don't mean anything at all. If a person can't see past this man's partisanship, then they are hopeless; when reason and logic are out the window, it's over. For those who want evidence from the mouth of Chuck Schumer himself [1]: >Schumer said that…

The only purpose Schumer and Pelosi serve in Washington is to sling mud at every single thing the administration does. It makes no difference what it is or where they stood prior.

The same purpose that the opposition party had during the last 8 years.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#55

Post by MisterBastahrd »

gragas wrote: post #29
vmarsy wrote: post #5

Related, Trump's executive order from today which mentions H-1Bs : https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/04/18/presi... And a quote from the NYT article[1]: “This does nothing,” said Senator Charles Schumer of New York, the Democratic leader. “Like all the other executive orders, it’s just words — he’s calling for new studies. It’s not going to fix the problem. It’s not going to create a single job.” [1] h…

>Like all the other executive orders, it’s just words The hypocrisy here is truly disgusting. One moment, executive orders are the end of the world. The next moment, they don't mean anything at all. If a person can't see past this man's partisanship, then they are hopeless; when reason and logic are out the window, it's over. For those who want evidence from the mouth of Chuck Schumer himself [1]: >Schumer said that…

More like you're a black and white sorta person and don't actually understand the nuance here.

It's true that Trump's executive order accomplishes nothing in terms of how H1-Bs are processed. It's also true that his rhetoric has a chilling affect on potential immigrants and companies who do business with them.

Schumer is right.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#56

Post by petethepig »

iraphael wrote: post #14
bwang29 wrote: post #9

For those in the thread who struggled for H1B's chance of winning, I'd recommend considering an O1 visa - I think the requirement is slightly lower to apply than previous years, and O1 doesn't have a lottery process. I've stayed in the US as a collage student, then graduate student from a top university then starting my company for a total of 9 years. I lost the H1B lottery twice and have been on F1 then F1-OPT, then…

What happens after the O1 expires? It's a non-immigrant visa right? I'm assuming it doesn't mean you get a green card after 3 years, correct?

You can extend it forever in 1-year increments.

O-1 is dual intent. So while you're in the country you can apply for a green card through EB-2/3 (PERM or NIW) or EB-1.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#57

Post by thaumasiotes »

anqh4 wrote: post #3
moultano wrote: post #2

Appending the subtitle of the article ("That is not a good argument against them") to the title would more accurately describe it.

I don't see how changing the title from a fact to a fact + an opinion would make it more accurate

"would more accurately describe the article", not reality.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#58

Post by gragas »

guelo wrote: post #52
gragas wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Like all the other executive orders, it’s just words The hypocrisy here is truly disgusting. One moment, executive orders are the end of the world. The next moment, they don't mean anything at all. If a person can't see past this man's partisanship, then they are hopeless; when reason and logic are out the window, it's over. For those who want evidence from the mouth of Chuck Schumer himself [1]: >Schumer said that…

It's pretty easy to read the executive order yourself. Sec. 5 (b) is the section in question: https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/04/18/presi... "shall, as soon as practicable, suggest reforms" is the actual meat of it.

>Like all the other executive orders, it’s just words

Was the executive order on immigration "just words" to Chuck Schumer? No. The answer is no. Just plain no. Chuck Schumer is a hypocrite, and if you align with him on both issues, then you clearly don't think for yourself.

Could it not be that some executive orders are meaningful (e.g., orders on immigration) and others aren't (e.g., kinda hand-wavy orders on "creating jobs")?

I really hope Trump follows through with his ideas about the H-1B program. But I'm also not mindlessly aligned with one side of politics, so I can understand that his order today will probably have no effect.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#59

Post by estebank »

exelius wrote: post #46
molyss wrote: post #10

"Given that the unemployment rate for college graduates sits at 2.5%, it is fair to say that most native workers displaced by H-1Bs land on their feet." That's completely ignoring the fact that if you have cheaper workers, you end up being underpaid and/or doing a job you'd rather not be doing. Unemployment rate alone don't tell the whole story, and failing to acknowledge that sounds like poor/partial journalism to m…

The point is that these Indian outsourcing firms would hire a white face as a sales person and use them to sell the exact same people on L1 visas (which are temporary work visas; but easy to get) at foreign rates and ship most of the work offshore. It would cost a little more for the outsourcing firms, sure, but it would be a net drain on the US economy (especially since it would keep real job creating entrepreneuria…

> which are temporary work visas; but easy to get

I wouldn't say that the L1 visas are easier to get. The only material differences I've noticed between L1 and H1B visas are

* the first is not lottery based,

* you must have worked for the company in another country for at least a year (time spent in the US while working for the company doesn't count),

* that an L2 holding spouse can have an Employment Authorization Document pretty quickly (instead of H2B visa holders, who can only apply for an EAD fairly late in the process after being in the country for years),

* L1 visa holders cannot change jobs, while H1B visa holders can (as difficult as that process can be).

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#60

Post by davidw »

diebir wrote: post #48

Of course they ought to just increase the number of H1-B visas... They have always been a drop in the bucket on the technology market, even in the worst times (2001 and 2009). These are the future immigrants that we want in the US, highly educated, driven, mobile upwards and ready to buy a house. If you can't find a job or compete with H1-Bs in this economy you probably should consider another occupation. I work for…

This is the best article I've seen on immigration:

http://johnhcochrane.blogspot.com/2014/06/the-optimal-number...

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