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The Great Japan Potato-Chip Crisis

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Re: The Great Japan Potato-Chip Crisis

#111

Post by arkades »

mistermann wrote: post #91
hkmurakami wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember seeing a "food security" campaign where demonstraters wanted the country to achieve 100% food sufficiency as a national security prerogative. Wasn't sure if it was a strange form of nationalism, or a veiled lobbying effort by an interest group (the abundance of very small scale farmers across the countryside)

Security of food supply is now also nationalism? Are we allowed to do anything in our self-interest anymore?

Food security is not nationalism.

But people actually campaigning for it...

People, who rarely get worked up about anything that doesn't put money in their pocket or stroke their ego, giving enough of a damn to go out and campaign for it... well, OP said it directly: he wasn't sure whether it was about putting money in their pocket, or stroking their ego.

Re: The Great Japan Potato-Chip Crisis

#112

Post by arkades »

nemasu wrote: post #59
nmerouze wrote: post #8

Agriculture in Japan is very under-developed. You add the import restrictions and it leads to produce being twice as expensive (if not more) than most western countries. It also means lack of variety. And organic products are rare. Shortages are a thing bound to happen. I was hoping for TPP to be accepted, but now I am just going to leave the country.

Most western countries? I find the produce, especially if it's in season, is much cheaper than the produce in Canada, and it's fresher too. Food in the United States is ridiculously inexpensive.

Price of fresh produce in the US varies depending on where you are. In many places, using the phrase "ridiculously inexpensive" would get you laughed at and/or castigated.

That said, fresh produce in the US sucks. Every European country I've visited has had notably better produce. I had a garden salad in Italy that actually made me pause and go, "Oh, these aren't supposed to be a form of self-flagellation in the name of health. These is actually delicious food." I rarely have that experience with US produce.

Re: The Great Japan Potato-Chip Crisis

#113

Post by _nedR »

emmelaich wrote: post #13

It still amazes me that potatoes and tomatoes, originally South America only, have become a food staple in just about every country since.

Cassava too, native to South America, a staple food or costaple in much of Africa especially in drought susceptible parts like sub-Sahara.

Its also quite important to many parts of Asia.

Edit: the impact of the columbian exchange on the world doesnt get enough attention.

(Video for columbian exchange cassava crash course world.history) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQPA5oNpfM4

Re: The Great Japan Potato-Chip Crisis

#114

Post by dm3730 »

emodendroket wrote: post #15
JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are US potatoes really lower quality than Japanese ones?

Without protectionist regulation Japanese farming isn't competitive.

> Without protectionist regulation Japanese farming isn't competitive.

Without protectionist regulation and subsidies European and American farming isn't competitive either.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6256274

Re: The Great Japan Potato-Chip Crisis

#115

Post by icebraining »

alva wrote: post #28
hkmurakami wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember seeing a "food security" campaign where demonstraters wanted the country to achieve 100% food sufficiency as a national security prerogative. Wasn't sure if it was a strange form of nationalism, or a veiled lobbying effort by an interest group (the abundance of very small scale farmers across the countryside)

Intuitively it sounds quite sensible. The more a nation can sustain itself on its internal market, the longer they can hold out through negative external circumstances. Much like energy. When everything is going rosy, relying on high % imports can be economically beneficial. In the case of extreme events like local or global wars, it leaves the country extremely fragile. Even outside wars, if there are drastic price…

I don't think they're underestimated. Most rich countries have large subsidies to national farmers. In the US federal budget, Food & Agriculture is the largest slice right after the big ones (social security, healthcare, military, veterans).

Re: The Great Japan Potato-Chip Crisis

#116

Post by speeder »

nmerouze wrote: post #109
laughingman2 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess there are other people who would applaud the japanese to aim for self sufficiency in producing food instead of selling out to corporate interests of few engaging in globalized trade.

If it was sustainable, I would applaud. But the reality is that young people don't want to take over the farms and rural population decreases rapidly. Even with incentives, new people don't want to take over farms because investment needed to modernize them is too important.

I am from Brazil, that is a agriculture powerhouse.

1. Young people here don't want to be farmers either, the ones that do want (me for Example) can't afford the land price anyway.

2. Because exporting the same thing over and over again is way more profitable than selling food to locals, most farms focus on those, we have regions where people eat poorly in the middle of gigantic eucalyptus fields that replaced all farms.

3. Point 2 is so bad we actually import lots of food, most notoriously most of our wheat is imported, some places even sell imported pasta, and most of the imports are mass production crap, for example giant apples with no taste, wheat that only works to make very soft crappy pasta that never befome al dente and has excessive amounts of gluten.

I actually envy Japan and other countries that defend their food security.

Re: The Great Japan Potato-Chip Crisis

#117

Post by emodendroket »

jpatokal wrote: post #97
iopq wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have money, and trade is fairly free, you would never have a famine unless it's world-wide. I mean, let's say all of your crops failed. So what? Just buy them from another country. It's a little more expensive, but better than starving. So why do people starve? It's when your money can't buy anything from another country because people from other countries don't have faith in your currency. Or when you can't t…

No, they're a political problem. There are no famines in democracies.

Unless we want to start playing semantic games about what counts as a "real" democracy that isn't really true.

Re: The Great Japan Potato-Chip Crisis

#118

Post by emodendroket »

iopq wrote: post #87
emodendroket wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose that's why there are no more famines anymore.

If you have money, and trade is fairly free, you would never have a famine unless it's world-wide. I mean, let's say all of your crops failed. So what? Just buy them from another country. It's a little more expensive, but better than starving. So why do people starve? It's when your money can't buy anything from another country because people from other countries don't have faith in your currency. Or when you can't t…

Well, in principle, that makes sense, but, to trot out a well-rehearsed example, what are we to make of Ireland continuing to export food during the potato famine in your framework? An unfettered free market will get food to people who can pay the most for it -- which isn't necessarily the same group of people who most need it.

Admittedly we are getting away from the example of Japan here where there isn't really a serious danger of famine either way without a drastic change in material conditions.

Re: The Great Japan Potato-Chip Crisis

#119

Post by willyt »

ericdykstra wrote: post #108
mistermann wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off topic, but diversity in economic approaches like this is one of the beneficial things we lose as we embrace globalism.

I'm not sure if it's a result of this kind of protectionism or not, but in general meat and fruit especially is much higher quality than what I had when I was living in the US. For fruit, the size of the individual fruits is smaller in general, but much more flavorful. The yields are lower (and thus price more expensive), but that's what happens when fruit is bred for flavor rather than volume. I imagine meat has som…

Italy also has small farms and delicious vegetables.

Re: The Great Japan Potato-Chip Crisis

#120

Post by emodendroket »

dm3730 wrote: post #114
emodendroket wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without protectionist regulation Japanese farming isn't competitive.

> Without protectionist regulation Japanese farming isn't competitive. Without protectionist regulation and subsidies European and American farming isn't competitive either. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6256274

Fair enough. I just meant to say that the point of the regulation isn't necessarily just the quality of the produce.
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