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The Great Japan Potato-Chip Crisis

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Re: The Great Japan Potato-Chip Crisis

#21

Post by zeroer »

emodendroket wrote: post #12
seunosewa wrote: post #5

I was thinking, "this is ridiculous; why can't they just import more potatoes?" and then I found this: "She also cited regulatory hurdles, which limit the amount of imported potatoes that can be used in products, as partly responsible for the shortage." No, it is primarily responsible for the shortage.

If, as your post seems to be recommending, such regulations were abolished, Japanese farmers would pretty much cease to exist because of their inability to compete with cheaper imports. Maybe you consider that an unacceptable tradeoff for some potato chip shortages but it's not clear that the Japanese share your sense of priorities.

I guess as a democratic state they can decide to restrict imports. But then don't ask anybody to give two shits that that there's a shortage.

Re: The Great Japan Potato-Chip Crisis

#22

Post by emodendroket »

zeroer wrote: post #21
emodendroket wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If, as your post seems to be recommending, such regulations were abolished, Japanese farmers would pretty much cease to exist because of their inability to compete with cheaper imports. Maybe you consider that an unacceptable tradeoff for some potato chip shortages but it's not clear that the Japanese share your sense of priorities.

I guess as a democratic state they can decide to restrict imports. But then don't ask anybody to give two shits that that there's a shortage.

I don't think Japan is appealing for international sympathy for its potato chip shortage, man.

Re: The Great Japan Potato-Chip Crisis

#23

Post by Barrin92 »

zeroer wrote: post #21
emodendroket wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If, as your post seems to be recommending, such regulations were abolished, Japanese farmers would pretty much cease to exist because of their inability to compete with cheaper imports. Maybe you consider that an unacceptable tradeoff for some potato chip shortages but it's not clear that the Japanese share your sense of priorities.

I guess as a democratic state they can decide to restrict imports. But then don't ask anybody to give two shits that that there's a shortage.

Well in this case it's Bloomberg and not the Japanese people. I guess a people who can keep composure in face of a nuclear meltdown and tsunami won't exactly lose their minds over a few weeks of potato chip shortage.

Re: The Great Japan Potato-Chip Crisis

#24

Post by hkmurakami »

yladiz wrote: post #18
JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are US potatoes really lower quality than Japanese ones?

I doubt it, especially since you can generally get a much wider range of varieties of potatoes in the US than in Japan, not just organic/non-organic, but different colored potatoes as well. My guess is that the rhetoric coming from the companies that US potato quality is lower is more due to the government being protectionist about national agriculture. It's also probably due to the mentality that producers want spec…

I remember seeing a "food security" campaign where demonstraters wanted the country to achieve 100% food sufficiency as a national security prerogative.

Wasn't sure if it was a strange form of nationalism, or a veiled lobbying effort by an interest group (the abundance of very small scale farmers across the countryside)

Re: The Great Japan Potato-Chip Crisis

#25

Post by [deleted] »

nmerouze wrote: post #8

Agriculture in Japan is very under-developed. You add the import restrictions and it leads to produce being twice as expensive (if not more) than most western countries. It also means lack of variety. And organic products are rare. Shortages are a thing bound to happen. I was hoping for TPP to be accepted, but now I am just going to leave the country.

[deleted]

Re: The Great Japan Potato-Chip Crisis

#26

Post by roenxi »

emodendroket wrote: post #12
seunosewa wrote: post #5

I was thinking, "this is ridiculous; why can't they just import more potatoes?" and then I found this: "She also cited regulatory hurdles, which limit the amount of imported potatoes that can be used in products, as partly responsible for the shortage." No, it is primarily responsible for the shortage.

If, as your post seems to be recommending, such regulations were abolished, Japanese farmers would pretty much cease to exist because of their inability to compete with cheaper imports. Maybe you consider that an unacceptable tradeoff for some potato chip shortages but it's not clear that the Japanese share your sense of priorities.

If you regulate against selling potato chips at the market rate, a likely outcome is a shortage of potato chips.

Grandparent didn't suggest a problem with protectionist regulations - simply that the regulation is the probable cause of the shortage. There is a link.

Re: The Great Japan Potato-Chip Crisis

#27

Post by hkmurakami »

emodendroket wrote: post #16
ajross wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Life on an island with a historically strict protectionist food policy. There is no potato shortage, per se (per the article, I'm surely no expert). There's a shortage of potatoes from Hokkaido, and domestic consumers aren't prepared for (or allowed to) buy them from an international market. Japan isn't the only nation to do this, of course. But they're one of the worst.

I don't see it as totally outlandish to protect domestic industry at the cost of not being able to get produce as cheaply or easily as you could otherwise. It's not as though Japan is suffering from starvation.

There are government subsidies being given to every farmer, iirc no matter how small or inefficient your operation.

Given that the country is heavily in debt, it's pretty fiscally irresponsible to continue with such a handout.

Re: The Great Japan Potato-Chip Crisis

#28

Post by alva »

hkmurakami wrote: post #24
yladiz wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it, especially since you can generally get a much wider range of varieties of potatoes in the US than in Japan, not just organic/non-organic, but different colored potatoes as well. My guess is that the rhetoric coming from the companies that US potato quality is lower is more due to the government being protectionist about national agriculture. It's also probably due to the mentality that producers want spec…

I remember seeing a "food security" campaign where demonstraters wanted the country to achieve 100% food sufficiency as a national security prerogative. Wasn't sure if it was a strange form of nationalism, or a veiled lobbying effort by an interest group (the abundance of very small scale farmers across the countryside)

Intuitively it sounds quite sensible. The more a nation can sustain itself on its internal market, the longer they can hold out through negative external circumstances.

Much like energy. When everything is going rosy, relying on high % imports can be economically beneficial. In the case of extreme events like local or global wars, it leaves the country extremely fragile. Even outside wars, if there are drastic price increases in the global market then you are highly exposed. Look at OPEC, the power they wield and how they direct their efforts in essentially geo-political 'battles'.

I don't know much about it, but I suspect that energy and agricultural self-sufficiency are very important and underestimated factors in (developed) nation state security.

Re: The Great Japan Potato-Chip Crisis

#29

Post by emodendroket »

roenxi wrote: post #26
emodendroket wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If, as your post seems to be recommending, such regulations were abolished, Japanese farmers would pretty much cease to exist because of their inability to compete with cheaper imports. Maybe you consider that an unacceptable tradeoff for some potato chip shortages but it's not clear that the Japanese share your sense of priorities.

If you regulate against selling potato chips at the market rate, a likely outcome is a shortage of potato chips. Grandparent didn't suggest a problem with protectionist regulations - simply that the regulation is the probable cause of the shortage. There is a link.

Actually what he said is that regulation is "primarily responsible" for the shortage, which seems contentious -- what about the failed crops, after all -- but it seems to me that he probably had some motivation for saying that beyond pedantry.

Re: The Great Japan Potato-Chip Crisis

#30

Post by emodendroket »

hkmurakami wrote: post #27
emodendroket wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see it as totally outlandish to protect domestic industry at the cost of not being able to get produce as cheaply or easily as you could otherwise. It's not as though Japan is suffering from starvation.

There are government subsidies being given to every farmer, iirc no matter how small or inefficient your operation. Given that the country is heavily in debt, it's pretty fiscally irresponsible to continue with such a handout.

I'm not sure how much we can trust your vague, half-remembered understanding of Japanese farming subsidies, but it's not clear to me that the right move for a country that's been in a long slump is to start making moves that will destroy domestic industries.
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