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John Carmack reviews VR app “Just Relax”

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Re: John Carmack reviews VR app “Just Relax”

#41
I mentioned Speedtree previously, and that gave me an idea. There's High Fidelity, which is a big, empty open source VR world, sort of like Second Life with few users but better resolution. High Fidelity starts with an empty world of a huge flat plane. Users are supposed to fill it up. Right now, it's very empty.

It should be initialized to be more like the real world. The terrain comes up as unexplored wilderness, with hills, mountains, valleys, lakes, trees, deserts, and vegetation. If you own land (which is a server-side thing), you can build it and clear it.

It would be a nice touch if moving around wore paths, so that paths and roads appeared naturally.

Re: John Carmack reviews VR app “Just Relax”

#42
post #7

It would be nice if Facebook's register an account pop-up didn't occupy 1/4 of the screen.

You can use uBlock Origin to hide the pop-up frame. You won't be able to click through it, but it won't interfere with reading.

You shouldn't have to, Facebook is a poor medium esp. in the context of HN as it is a pain to browse/use on purpose if you don't make an account.

Re: John Carmack reviews VR app “Just Relax”

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure you made an engine, I doubt it has 1/50th of the real feature of the top engines. Can it import layers for photoshop or do you have to save as .PNGs. Can you import Maya, 3DS Max, Blender, and others or only some exported format like Collada. Do you have support for Right to Left text, All of Unicode? Do you run on 15 platforms including things 3DS, Switch, ... Do you have an IDE non-programmers can use? Does it…

Right which is totally out of scope of Facebook's capabilities right? Give me a break. You can pile up an infinite list of capabilities for any kind of ide, engine, editor etc... Point is, if anyone can do it its Facebook and it would be great for the dev community. Take that chip of your shoulder for a minute.

is it beyond facebook's capability? no. Is it beyond their will? Yes.

I was once naive, I joined Google to make a game engine. My belief at the time was like yours. It's Google, they're a giant company with infinite resources. There's no way this won't take over the game engine world.

it wasn't until about 14 months in I realized that competing with Unreal and Unity wasn't just a mater of 30 people building an engine. to actually succeed it would take more like 300-400 people and a mandate for those people to form an everlasting division within the company of support. people to make an IDE, people to continually update the engine and IDE, people to hand hold devs. people to make 100s of videos. people to run classes. people to organize conferences. people to organize game jams. people to do bizdev. people to woo the top devs. people in all the major game dev hubs in the world, people to localize docs, etc...

this works for unity and unreal because selling their game engine and services is their core mission. for Google (and for Facebook) all it would ever be is some open source code of some under featured engine they ship once and forget. Unity has about 1000 employees. Unreal has at least 250. Their entire missions are to make, sell, and promote those game engines. That will never be facebook's mission which is why it would never succeed.

Re: John Carmack reviews VR app “Just Relax”

#44

He makes the point about UE having default large packages. Not a huge problem for desktop VR apps for vive and rift, but is a limiting factor. This is however a major problem for mobile, using both unity and UE and I know it is preventing more mobile VR and AR apps from being developed. Given that carmack is really focused on mobile I'd think oculus would want to create a light weight development/graphics engine. I'm…

He makes the point about UE having default large packages. Not a huge problem for desktop VR apps for vive and rift, but is a limiting factor.

For who?

That's a serious question.

I have fast wifi connectivity at home, at the local coffee shop, at my local bar, at the local libarary, etc.

I have a limited cell phone data plan, and I could download that app 16 times in a month for free.

For who is it a limiting factor to download a 191 megabyte app?

Old-timers who calculate how many multiples that is of the RAM of their first 8-bit home computer? The under- or non-developed world?

Or am I so spoiled that I don't even realie that 191 megabytes is a thing?

Re: John Carmack reviews VR app “Just Relax”

#46
post #17
post #16

Did I miss something? Should you give someone feedback on a public post? Writing generically about something you noticed would be fine but to specifically talk about a project, I don't know, I would feel super uncomfortable if it was done to me.

It is a series of public feedback posts; the devs know it will be public. It is supposed to be able to help other people.

Imagine the exposure you get from such a post.. I think a little bruise on your ego would be worth it.

Re: John Carmack reviews VR app “Just Relax”

#47

He makes the point about UE having default large packages. Not a huge problem for desktop VR apps for vive and rift, but is a limiting factor. This is however a major problem for mobile, using both unity and UE and I know it is preventing more mobile VR and AR apps from being developed. Given that carmack is really focused on mobile I'd think oculus would want to create a light weight development/graphics engine. I'm…

He makes the point about UE having default large packages. Not a huge problem for desktop VR apps for vive and rift, but is a limiting factor. For who? That's a serious question. I have fast wifi connectivity at home, at the local coffee shop, at my local bar, at the local libarary, etc. I have a limited cell phone data plan, and I could download that app 16 times in a month for free. For who is it a limiting factor…

Or am I so spoiled that I don't even realie that 191 megabytes is a thing

I think that's the most likely option honestly. I don't mean that to be snarky, by the way. Most of the dedicated VR users now are still largely in the early adopter space and are heavily high end PC users - so they generally have higher levels of technology ubiquity.

To reach the vast majority of people, the costs, in both money and accessibility, need to drastically come down. Practically, for facebook and other developers, that means reducing the overhead on these systems dramatically.

Mobile is the nearest term approach to this - though still unsolved. Again, this is why Carmack is focusing heavily on GearVR development and says so himself [1]: "There is no way that a PC peripheral or a game console winds up being the path that billions of people interact with."

[1] http://www.reaxxion.com/7793/carmack-announces-that-oculus-r...

Re: John Carmack reviews VR app “Just Relax”

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with any of that. However the point is it would be huge for the development community but a relatively small project for Facebook. Would solidify platform lock in even further.

Why do I want a platform lock? As a gamedev that's the worst thing that can happen unless there's substantial compensation on the other side of the equation.

Well we don't, but facebook certainly does, which is why I think it's in their interest to do so,

Re: John Carmack reviews VR app “Just Relax”

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right which is totally out of scope of Facebook's capabilities right? Give me a break. You can pile up an infinite list of capabilities for any kind of ide, engine, editor etc... Point is, if anyone can do it its Facebook and it would be great for the dev community. Take that chip of your shoulder for a minute.

is it beyond facebook's capability? no. Is it beyond their will? Yes. I was once naive, I joined Google to make a game engine. My belief at the time was like yours. It's Google, they're a giant company with infinite resources. There's no way this won't take over the game engine world. it wasn't until about 14 months in I realized that competing with Unreal and Unity wasn't just a mater of 30 people building an engine…

All of what you say is totally reasonable and I don't disagree with any of the thrust. That said, I'm arguing that it's in Facebook's best interest to build the engine and further I think it would make it drastically easier for the dev community if something like it existed.

I talked with the Unity founders at GDC and they have very little interest in putting resources around mobile right now , so I think there is a hole in the market that will be really hard to fill by another startup. Hence, why I think these platform owners would be best to tackle it.

As an aside, I think it would be more optimal if there were a third party focused on a mobile VR engine - but again, as we agree it's such a huge project, with really difficult distribution pathways, that I think it's too big of a mountain right now for an independent group. So we're gonna be waiting around a while for that.

Re: John Carmack reviews VR app “Just Relax”

#50
post #8

He makes the point about UE having default large packages. Not a huge problem for desktop VR apps for vive and rift, but is a limiting factor. This is however a major problem for mobile, using both unity and UE and I know it is preventing more mobile VR and AR apps from being developed. Given that carmack is really focused on mobile I'd think oculus would want to create a light weight development/graphics engine. I'm…

Building an engine takes years and a large(~30+) team if you want to match UE4/Unity in terms of productivity.

Ha, well it looks like I was right, except instead of an engine for VR they made it for AR.
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