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How many jobs really require college?

devinhelton.com

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Re: How many jobs really require college?

#191

Post by kmicklas »

iamdave wrote: post #190
kmicklas wrote: post #186

Stopped reading at: "College actually teaching people how to think is increasingly rare. Only a small percentage of students actually read the classics, get exposed to a variety of ideas, or are actually challenged to think in section or seminar. And more and more, college has become an environment hostile to free inquiry. Even fifteen years ago at an Ivy League school I did not like to say things too far outside the…

glorious racist sexist libertarian views How on Earth are you divining racism and sexism out of this article???

I mean people who say stuff like that are almost without fail racist sexist shitheads but I had to dig a bit further for proof:

https://devinhelton.com/hate-group-history

https://devinhelton.com/principles-of-formalism

Re: How many jobs really require college?

#192

Post by iamdave »

kmicklas wrote: post #191
iamdave wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

glorious racist sexist libertarian views How on Earth are you divining racism and sexism out of this article???

I mean people who say stuff like that are almost without fail racist sexist shitheads but I had to dig a bit further for proof: https://devinhelton.com/hate-group-history https://devinhelton.com/principles-of-formalism

What exactly is your critique of his Black Panther article? I'm reading it now, but I need more than just you pointing me at an article and telling me "It's racist".

Why is it racist? What are your counterpoints? What is your actual argument here? On the face of it, sans anything substantive to what you're saying, what you're doing right now looks like textbook character assassination.

Re: How many jobs really require college?

#193

Post by mynameishere »

GCA10 wrote: post #42

Lots of interesting ideas here, but also some wacky or condescending assumptions about other people's lines of work. Let's take two: TRUCK DRIVERS: They don't just move big rigs around. They also need to keep detailed log books, plan out routes, pass inspections -- and know how to talk civilly and constructively to DOT inspectors. An eighth grade education will not get you there. Especially on the last part. The back…

Far from needing a college degree, financial advisors benefit from the unique professional advantage of not needing to exist.

Re: How many jobs really require college?

#194

Post by kmicklas »

iamdave wrote: post #192
kmicklas wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean people who say stuff like that are almost without fail racist sexist shitheads but I had to dig a bit further for proof: https://devinhelton.com/hate-group-history https://devinhelton.com/principles-of-formalism

What exactly is your critique of his Black Panther article? I'm reading it now, but I need more than just you pointing me at an article and telling me "It's racist". Why is it racist? What are your counterpoints? What is your actual argument here? On the face of it, sans anything substantive to what you're saying, what you're doing right now looks like textbook character assassination.

Wew... You're asking me to explain why it's racist???

Re: How many jobs really require college?

#195

Post by iamdave »

kmicklas wrote: post #194
iamdave wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly is your critique of his Black Panther article? I'm reading it now, but I need more than just you pointing me at an article and telling me "It's racist". Why is it racist? What are your counterpoints? What is your actual argument here? On the face of it, sans anything substantive to what you're saying, what you're doing right now looks like textbook character assassination.

Wew... You're asking me to explain why it's racist???

Because you're the one who made the claim, and I've already stated I am just now reading the article, yes-in fact I am.

And let me offer some context for you here for a second: I am a black man. And there are elements of the black community that deserves some critique from within the black community, but is labelled prima facie as "racist" by individuals engaging in what I've learned to call "performative wokeness" when it comes from not-black voices. Sometimes (and sometimes often) without care or regard for the factual accuracy and relevance of those critiques. Moral conviction be damned.

So yes, I'm still reading the article, but you're making the claim, I'm holding you to that claim considering your profile identifies you as someone who "push[es] back the tide of racist libertarians and startup bros"

If you're going to "push back", there should be a reasonable expectation of resistance from people who want an honest, earnest and intelligent debate. Otherwise, IMO you're just putting on performances.

Re: How many jobs really require college?

#196

Post by iamacynic »

komali2 wrote: post #26
iamacynic wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is a bimodal distribution. my plumber/electrician/mechanic and my investment banker/lawyer aren't going to be replaced by robots any time soon.

Why wouldn't your investment banker be replaced? Most trades are by bots anyway.

wrong job. i suggest you consider that you may not know as much as you think you know; this is one of those points in your life where cognitive dissonance kicks in.

Re: How many jobs really require college?

#197

Post by exclusiv »

kmicklas wrote: post #189
exclusiv wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a big claim you're making with no evidence. In fact that kind of assumption about someone that thinks differently is what the author was probably referring to.

Just check his other posts: Racist: https://devinhelton.com/hate-group-history Sexist: https://devinhelton.com/principles-of-formalism Libertarian nutjob: all of them

I don't see how you can objectively say all of those points are nutjob - many are just summaries of our existing structure. Perhaps you don't agree with all of them but that doesn't make them nutjob.

Racist claim - not seeing it. While I wouldn't try to equate the Black Panthers w the KKK, ignoring the Black Panther violence against innocents is dishonest. And not understanding why someone would boycott a celeb who promotes a group w a violent history isn't being honest either. That's not an unreasonable thing.

Re: How many jobs really require college?

#198

Post by ghaff »

ryanSrich wrote: post #166
bogomipz wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"The most elite companies in the valley have correctly found out that remote doesn't work (in most cases)... and yet we're going to do remote with our students?" I'm curious do you have a citation for this? Have those "elite companies" - Google, FB, etc ever actually embraced a remote work force? My impression was they were always on-site shops. But maybe someone here knows more?

There's no source because it's a completely false claim. The "remote doesn't work" trope is perpetuated by Silicon Valley Culture[1][2]. Remote work is like security. You can't bolt it on and expect it to work. You can't half-ass it and expect it to work. The companies that do it correctly make it a foundation of their culture. I will cede the fact that remote work isn't for every individual, but I think even that ca…

I honestly think that even that is too binary. Clearly there are fully remote and no/minimal remote companies. But there are also a lot who (mostly) started with an onsite culture and as they've grown/acquired teams/etc. they've become more distributed and remote work-oriented organically. And they usually find it works better for some teams and roles than others.

Re: How many jobs really require college?

#199

Post by user5994461 »

JDiculous wrote: post #24
pen2l wrote: post #7

I think the author of this post is making the same mistake that a lot of other people (particularly smart folks) make whenever they are thinking about the ills of modern education system and what can be done to improve it. Like Peter Thiel and others, I don't think they understand how and why students are failing in classrooms today. Take for example the author's suggestions on how school systems can be improved: Cre…

> The most elite companies in the valley have correctly found out that remote doesn't work There are enough companies out there with remote employees and even remotely distributed teams to disprove the assertion that "remote doesn't work".

Remote doesn't work.

I know, I work remote with people in 4 continents across 6 timezones. It simply doesn't work.

You can't teach people, you can't train people, you can't show anything over a phone or a chat.

On top of that, as soon as you have different timezones with little to no overlap. You cannot synchronise or work with your colleagues at all.

Remote work and remote teams should be limited to people who are already senior, fully autonomous and experienced. And even there, it's a constant battle and it takes a lot of self discipline.

Re: How many jobs really require college?

#200

Post by sbuttgereit »

In my experience as a hiring manager, a degree can be useful as an indicator, but I wouldn't actually require it for most positions. A degree requirement can also be a crutch for HR departments that are overwhelmed by applicant volume and lesser hiring managers that put more stock in a culturally defined checklist than their own judgement about any given candidate's suitability.

The biggest problem with the degree-as-a-substitute-for-judgement approach is that not all degree programs are equal to start with. There are degree programs which absolutely speak well of a candidate (on a resume) and there are programs you can graduate from which would be less of an indicator of suitability than relevant work experience. Certainly not all degrees are equal. There are some real bullshit things you can major in insofar as being an indicator for employ-ability is concerned. So for me to care about a degree on a resume, it has to be an appropriate degree and it has to be from a program that I know indicates some skill and perseverance on the part of the candidate... otherwise I dismiss it as an evaluation factor: at that point it's simply an uninformative data point.... it's just noise.

To be fair, I say this as someone that has had a good career in technology without a degree. I have do have a fair amount of college (in one of those bullshit majors I was mentioning), but no sheepskin. (Actually, one of the schools I attended seemingly attached so little to the degree in terms of success of the candidate, that they had a policy of indefinite re-admittance since many wanted to finish solely for self-enrichment after they had gone off and had their career success pre-graduation :-) ).

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