U.S. Intelligence Analyst Arrested in Wikileaks Video Probe • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. Intelligence Analyst Arrested in Wikileaks Video Probe

#21

Post by rdl » Mon, Jun 07, 2010, 5:47 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #8

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much more serious trouble could Manning get into? I'm not trying to be argumentative. It's a serious question. He had a very high security rating, and was dumping highly classified documents -- the work of tens of thousands of man hours and billions of dollars of intelligence -- on to the web. What's the next step past that? EDIT: wrong guy -- changed name to be what I meant and not what I typed

Accidentally publishing a document that creates a serious operational crisis, thus putting him in military prison for the rest of his life.

Such as the state department data off JWICS, which he also copied and intended to publish through wikileaks?

Re: U.S. Intelligence Analyst Arrested in Wikileaks Video Probe

#22

Post by mcantelon » Mon, Jun 07, 2010, 5:52 PM UTC

avner wrote: post #9

Brad Manning violated the very core values of integrity involved in operating as an IA. In my opinion he doesn't deserve the 'whisteblower' status some people are trying to protect him under. Leaking a single controversial guncam footage because his conscience gave in is one thing, but continuing to leak documents and material and then boast about it to someone like Lamo is another. As a former Marine, I have seen an…

If you're referring to the video of the Apache assult, how does leaked video of war crimes cost lives? If you're referring to other material he leaked, which material are you referring to?

Re: U.S. Intelligence Analyst Arrested in Wikileaks Video Probe

#23

Post by tptacek » Mon, Jun 07, 2010, 5:53 PM UTC

rdl wrote: post #21

tptacek wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accidentally publishing a document that creates a serious operational crisis, thus putting him in military prison for the rest of his life.

Such as the state department data off JWICS, which he also copied and intended to publish through wikileaks?

We don't really know what he's published (consider the source here). It could be very bad. Hopefully it's not. Either way, it would only gotten worse if he had been left to broker the DoD for Assange.

Re: U.S. Intelligence Analyst Arrested in Wikileaks Video Probe

#24

Post by rrc » Mon, Jun 07, 2010, 5:54 PM UTC

rdl wrote: post #12

houseabsolute wrote: post #3

I think after this Lamo will probably not hear from any more people confessing crimes. Hard to say what the right course of action would be in this situation although if I were Lamo I probably would not voluntarily announce my participation in the investigation.

Lamo was kind of backed into a corner. Even aside from the moral issues (I personally would have turned in Manning; if you volunteer for a role where you will get classified data, you need to play by those rules!) 1) If SPC Manning was talking recklessly to Lamo, Lamo had to assume he was also talking to other people, and generally behaving recklessly. Manning was going to get caught. If Lamo didn't say anything, but…

On the other hand, Lamo might have argued that his status as a famous hacker makes him a regular target for the fabricated tales of script kiddies and weirdos worldwide.

Encountering a boastful liar on the internet isn't a freak occurrence by any means. Whether or not this is a viable defense is another matter.

Re: U.S. Intelligence Analyst Arrested in Wikileaks Video Probe

#25

Post by rdl » Mon, Jun 07, 2010, 5:56 PM UTC

jrockway wrote: post #10

I hope he gets a real trial. Because I would nullify.

Thankfully, he's under UCMJ jurisdiction, and will have professional military officers adjudicating.

i.e., he's fucked.

Re: U.S. Intelligence Analyst Arrested in Wikileaks Video Probe

#26

Post by mcantelon » Mon, Jun 07, 2010, 5:57 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #2

From the (better) BBC story[1], Lamo's quoted saying: "I hope that Manning gets the same chance as I did - the same chance to take his punishment as I did and start a new life as I did." "I like to think I prevented him from getting into more serious trouble." I'm not a fan of Lamo or anything, but this seems dead on. [1] http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/10255887.stm

That seems more like a convenient rationalization to me.

Re: U.S. Intelligence Analyst Arrested in Wikileaks Video Probe

#27

Post by jrockway » Mon, Jun 07, 2010, 5:57 PM UTC

rdl wrote: post #25

jrockway wrote: post #10

I hope he gets a real trial. Because I would nullify.

Thankfully, he's under UCMJ jurisdiction, and will have professional military officers adjudicating. i.e., he's fucked.

It's ironic that the Constitution doesn't apply to those who make a living defending its principles.

Re: U.S. Intelligence Analyst Arrested in Wikileaks Video Probe

#28

Post by tptacek » Mon, Jun 07, 2010, 5:58 PM UTC

mcantelon wrote: post #26

tptacek wrote: post #2

From the (better) BBC story[1], Lamo's quoted saying: "I hope that Manning gets the same chance as I did - the same chance to take his punishment as I did and start a new life as I did." "I like to think I prevented him from getting into more serious trouble." I'm not a fan of Lamo or anything, but this seems dead on. [1] http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/10255887.stm

That seems more like a convenient rationalization to me.

I agree, but it happens to ring true.

Re: U.S. Intelligence Analyst Arrested in Wikileaks Video Probe

#29

Post by rdl » Mon, Jun 07, 2010, 6:00 PM UTC

rrc wrote: post #24

rdl wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lamo was kind of backed into a corner. Even aside from the moral issues (I personally would have turned in Manning; if you volunteer for a role where you will get classified data, you need to play by those rules!) 1) If SPC Manning was talking recklessly to Lamo, Lamo had to assume he was also talking to other people, and generally behaving recklessly. Manning was going to get caught. If Lamo didn't say anything, but…

On the other hand, Lamo might have argued that his status as a famous hacker makes him a regular target for the fabricated tales of script kiddies and weirdos worldwide. Encountering a boastful liar on the internet isn't a freak occurrence by any means. Whether or not this is a viable defense is another matter.

Even if something is a viable defense against conviction in court, being the subject of an investigation, or even worse, CI investigation, is way before that point -- and highly unpleasant I'm sure, especially for someone with previous criminal convictions and ongoing involvement with "hackerdom".

Re: U.S. Intelligence Analyst Arrested in Wikileaks Video Probe

#30

Post by hga » Mon, Jun 07, 2010, 6:20 PM UTC

jrockway wrote: post #27

rdl wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thankfully, he's under UCMJ jurisdiction, and will have professional military officers adjudicating. i.e., he's fucked.

It's ironic that the Constitution doesn't apply to those who make a living defending its principles.

But it does, although there is a specific carve out for bringing charges in the 5th Amendment:

"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger...."