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Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

drupalconfessions.org

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Re: Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

#311

Post by lucideer »

gooseus wrote: post #182
lucideer wrote: post #110

A lot of people are taking either stance: that a person's beliefs squarely should or should not affect their involvement in the project. However - the third stance is that one needs to assess the material effect their beliefs may have on their day-to-day involvement in that project. In an industry with serious, systemic issues with gender balance, is it not reasonable to suggest a person promoting "Gorean philosophy"…

But who does the assessing? What measure do we use to determine which beliefs will create which affects? Is a Gorean belief system more or less likely than an Abrahamic belief system to execute poor judgement with regards to female collaborators? I think the problem with many of these approaches is this notion that we can predict ahead of time. I would agree with your third approach if you just changed the tense of t…

You're right, and I probably should've worded it that way (I can no longer edit). I was using the term "might" in a suggestive, rather than speculative, way.

Re: Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

#312

Post by josephlord »

rsyring wrote: post #278
simias wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying that you should hide yourself for being christian. I wouldn't have any problem working with somebody having religious themed personal items on their desk. That's your private space as far as I'm concerned. I've worked with a catholic guy who told me he prostested the same-sex marriage law in france. I completely disagree with his position but we just stopped the discussion at this point and we kept wor…

> or even wear anti-abortion shirts or stuff like that then yeah, I might ask you to tone it down. If someone wore a t-shirt in support of the LGBTQ+ life style, would you ask them to "tone it down"?

One is about telling other people how they should behave and possibly making them uncomfortable it they have had an abortion, the other is acknowledging the existence of people and their freedom to be who they are.

This is a pretty fundamental difference isn't it? No one is out wearing t-shirts telling other people that they should be queer are they?

And I'm assuming your use of the phrase "the LGBTQ+ life style" was a slip not an intentional denial of the many different lifestyles LGBTQ people have and that being L, G, B, T or Q is for most not a lifestyle but fundamental component of their person.

Re: Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

#313

Post by hhandoko »

Pxtl wrote: post #92
Udo wrote: post #44

Expanding on one of the comments that might clear up what we're actually talking about (which wasn't made especially clear otherwise): >> "The Gorean philosophy promoted by Larry is based on the principle that women are evolutionarily predisposed to serve men and that the natural order is for men to dominate and lead." Even assuming this is Larry's philosophy, it is pretty much the same philosophy shared by many wome…

This is where professionalism is important. Firmly separating your personal life and your professional life. That said, there's a huge gap between a religion a person is imparted with as a child, and philosophy they chose as an adult and have jumped into with both feet. Many people come from backgrounds with bigoted ideas like that, but they don't colour their daily lives with it because they're not actively married…

> Marvel Comics recently fired an illustrator for hiding Islamist, anti-Semitic and anti-Christian references in his art. His ideas were "normal" in his country - should that have been ignored? Reprimanded as long as he kept his politics out of his art?

Indonesian here, I'm not sure to what you attribute it to a normal view by Indonesians?

Re: Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

#314

Post by najajomo »

Pxtl wrote: post #244
M_Grey wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So often you get stories in which a certain type of person cries, "Thought Police!" as a way to deflect from the core issues, but... this really is an example of that. As you say, the thoughts you have and express on your own time , which in no way change your professionalism, are your thoughts, period. I can't even imagine the life I would have led, the friends and colleagues I would never have had if "What you thin…

Let's reductio ad absurdum: what if one of your friends was a literal nazi. Never gassed any Jews, but thought it was a good idea. Wouldbe okay with that?

> Let's reductio ad absurdum: what if one of your friends was a literal nazi. Never gassed any Jews, but thought it was a good idea. Wouldbe okay with that?

Well put, I wonder would the signers be so vocal in support if he were a fundamentalist Christian that opposed abortion and gay marriage?

Re: Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

#315

Post by imesh »

HappyTypist wrote: post #46
StavrosK wrote: post #35

Being unfamiliar with this, from the starting few paragraphs I thought "oh man, they have a white surpremacist developer or something and now there's a scandal, huh". Then I learnt that he was ousted because of his sex life. What the fuck? What does it matter to anyone what he does with other consenting adults in private?

>> "The Gorean philosophy promoted by Larry is based on the principle that women are evolutionarily predisposed to serve men and that the natural order is for men to dominate and lead."

It seems like Gorean is some shit people talk about before they cum. Sometimes I call my wife a whore, and than we cum and I go help with the household chores and changing diapers.

Larry likes to jerk off to weird stories, who gives a shit.

Re: Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

#316

Post by barsonme »

mercer wrote: post #172
humanrebar wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...as long as that belief is not in some way construed as a community value... I honestly don't care about that even, as long as people can discuss their ideas and leave the group if they're done tolerating each other. > It's one of the simple facts of life that you pretty have to work with people who believe all kinds of things... In popular usage, "tolerance" is slowly becoming synonymous with "acceptance" or "ce…

> In popular usage, "tolerance" is slowly becoming synonymous with "acceptance" or "celebration". But in reality, you just described real tolerance right here. It's a good balance because we can absolutely agree to disagree and be part of a healthy community anyway. Keeping "tolerance" as tolerance is the best recipe for actual diversity of identity and thought in my opinion. http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-ca…

this was a good read, thanks for sharing

Re: Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

#318

Post by Wintamute »

cat199 wrote: post #118
Wintamute wrote: post #25

When your private proclivities don't vibe with the dominant culture (postmodernist/intersectional social justice activism) you can expect to be drummed out of open source communities - we've known this to be true for some time. Very pleased to see the open letter from the community come down firmly against this regressive practice, they are firmly on the right side of history.

> right side of history. This phrase to some extent seems to have origins in dialectical materialism which is a marxist philosophy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectical_materialism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_materialism I mention this because it seems at odds with your opposition to certain attitudes.

I appreciate the gesture, but I'm not familiar enough with dialectical materialism to gain much insight. Have I undermined my own point somehow? In reflection I can see how a phrase like "the right side of history" is somewhat unhelpful, since whichever side is "right" is completely subjective.

Re: Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

#319

Post by yakshaving_jgt »

Frondo wrote: post #241
ploxiln wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the funny thing - leftist beliefs are in fact "half the population is my lesser ". The half that are not leftist are "bad hateful people", and you hate them and do not tolerate them. I'm no republican, but I end up being more annoyed by liberals for such blatant doublethink, for being unable to recognize their own actions.

I've never seen any leftist claim that any group is inferior by birth; though it is, of course, easy to find leftists looking down on people for the ideas they hold and politics they practice. But having bad ideas doesn't seem to translate to "is my lesser" or is less human than me. To put it another way, the leftists will acknowledge that anyone can grow out of stupid ideas (and indeed, there are hopeful stories of…

> I've never seen any leftist claim that any group is inferior by birth

Did you forget radical feminism?

Re: Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

#320

Post by jdietrich »

Pxtl wrote: post #244
M_Grey wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So often you get stories in which a certain type of person cries, "Thought Police!" as a way to deflect from the core issues, but... this really is an example of that. As you say, the thoughts you have and express on your own time , which in no way change your professionalism, are your thoughts, period. I can't even imagine the life I would have led, the friends and colleagues I would never have had if "What you thin…

Let's reductio ad absurdum: what if one of your friends was a literal nazi. Never gassed any Jews, but thought it was a good idea. Wouldbe okay with that?

I'd work with the reanimated corpse of Adolf Hitler if he made good, well-documented commits.

Tolerance (noun): "the ability or willingness to tolerate the existence of opinions or behaviour that one dislikes or disagrees with". Tolerance only counts for anything if it's an effort, if you have to grit your teeth and bite your tongue to make it work. Tolerance is meaningless if you only tolerate people who you consider worthy of tolerating.

I find it odd that many of the people who are so vehement about no-platforming and safe spaces are also strident advocates for a rehabilitative model of criminal justice. That seems profoundly dissonant - if you're a literal murderer I'll fight for your right to be re-integrated into society, but if you hold views that I find unacceptable I'll fight to ensure that you're completely marginalised. I don't see how more division and more antipathy is going to create a more inclusive society.

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