I'm not sure whether or be alarmed or proud.
Proud. The US prison system is oppressive garbage. Good for the inmates.
Except for them using it to steal other inmates identities.
Investigation finds inmates built computers and hid them in prison ceiling
181–190 of 202 posts
Re: Investigation finds inmates built computers and hid them in prison ceiling
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, I'm not jealous - there is no need for personal remarks here. I'm just pointing out that it's not fair to the rest of the society. State will only be able to feed and house inmates, if it forcibly takes money from members of that society in the form of taxes. In order to give to someone, you have to take from someone else - it's that simple.
I'm not seeing anything unfair here. the society pays money to the government and in return have prisons. Society benefits from said prisons. If you're going to tackle unfairness in society, you should be aiming for the massive imbalance of wealth. Anything else is premature optimization
> I'm not seeing anything unfair here
Yeah, because feeding and housing drug dealers for the money taken forcibly from an average Joe who works 12h a day to provide to his family is totally fair.
> the society pays money to the government and in return have prisons. Society benefits from said prisons.
This is very naive way of looking at it.
> you should be aiming for the massive imbalance of wealth
Wow, it didn't take much time before someone had to drag this into discussion about penitentiary system.
Re: Investigation finds inmates built computers and hid them in prison ceiling
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
>if you feel that letting people starve to death is a viable alternative (as you did in your earlier comment) isn't it how this works in principle for folks that are not imprisoned? (And no, I don't think this a viable alternative, although - nice job what you did here - well played).
> isn't it how this works in principle for folks that are not imprisoned? No, it isn't that's when you go on welfare. > (And no, I don't think this a viable alternative, although - nice job what you did here - well played). I didn't 'play', you basically made a bunch of statements that are un-supportable.
Just so you are aware, individual states have the right to prevent forced labor. For example, CO prevented forced labor in its constitution in the last election by a voter initiative.
Re: Investigation finds inmates built computers and hid them in prison ceiling
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
> That depends on the situation but is ultimately un-important It actually is very important because this is exactly what distinguishes between labour slavery and ordinary paid work. Economic rules is not something that one can decide whether it applies or not. It's like telling that mathematical axioms don't apply in prison - sure, you can make people believe that 2 + 2 = 5 but this is nothing more than just rejecti…
> It actually is very important because this is exactly what distinguishes between labour slavery and ordinary paid work. "Ordinary paid work" that pays less than a dollar an hour. And if you don't go you are put in solitary, instead of just being fired. That means you don't see any other people. Ever. If they really don't like you they can put you on the loaf, too. Look that up. And that "opportunity" for "ordinary…
> "Ordinary paid work" that pays less than a dollar an hour.
This is why I'm saying that this work should be paid with fair rates.
I think you've made a lot of false assumptions about myself, about who I am and about my "perspective" and "awareness".
Everyone has to work to live and I'm really surprised that expecting this from inmates can be perceived as dehumanising.
> (Ask me what comes out of the hole when someone gets repeatedly stabbed with a sharpened toothbrush and what color it is. Hint: not red. That's reality.)
With all due respect to your past experience, bad things happen to people outside of prison too, believe me - I'm in touch with reality.
Re: Investigation finds inmates built computers and hid them in prison ceiling
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ah the good ol' tired "why don't you take refugees into your own home" argument. Why would I need to host them when I don't need to host a jail? The same thing with orphans and refugees. The government provides space for them paid for with my taxes. I don't invite every homeless person I see into my home permanently, doesn't mean I don't care about them or believe the government should combat the issue or open more s…
I don't think I have ever been more obviously sarcastic than here. Of course I knew very well that, despite painting prisoners as victims of moral judgments and suggesting that moral judgments are something wrong altogether, you wouldn't want this crowd anywhere near your house. With my comment, I only wanted to point out this exact hypocrisy. So thank you for confirming that my cynicism is justified. I feel better a…
Sorry for overreacting, your comment was so outlandish I was really taken aback. (detecting tone on the internet can be quite difficult, especially if you don't know anything about the commentator) The thing about moral judgments I was saying is that the people in jail are there because they did something their society considers morally wrong. For some people these things are not considered bad. My solution would be to not jail them for these things at all. Inviting them into my house is neither here nor there, but I would gladly try to befriend them and as in any relationship eventually they'd be invited into my home as well. My issue isn't with moral judgements, I feel littering is morally wrong and I would gladly see people be fined for it, it's that people don't see that jailing people is a result of these moral judgements rather than some inherent evil.
Re: Investigation finds inmates built computers and hid them in prison ceiling
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
People have gone to the prison in the past solely because of the color of their skin or because of their religion. People today go to prison just for possessing a plant or criticizing their head of state. Let's not pretend that being in prison is anything other than a moral judgement rather than an indication of someone's character. It just makes it easier to dehumanize prisoners ("they deserve it") and harder for th…
>People have gone to the prison in the past solely because of the color of their skin or because of their religion. The only inmate named in the story was a white guy who who murdered someone during a robbery. http://odrc.drc.ohio.gov/OffenderSearch/details.aspx?id=A414...
I said in the past. In America, they were called Jim Crow laws. Though this has happened all over the world.
Re: Investigation finds inmates built computers and hid them in prison ceiling
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
does it? it makes two big assumptions that leaves it open: 1. only state prisons are considered 2. only people in prison for a year or more are considered there's nothing in the comment showing that shorter term inmates are a smaller population, nor that they aren't mostly non violent offenders, nor that federal prisons aren't mostly non violent offenders. In total, the comment just shows that there are violent and n…
I'm the author of the linked comment. I originally focused on state prisons because the article was about events in a state prison, so P(person did something bad|person is currently in state prison) was the relevant statistic. But let's repeat the analysis counting federal prisons and local jails as well. In general, people with sentences longer than a year go to prison, and sentences shorter than a year go to jail.…
Thanks. I'll adjust those incorrect things in the future.
Re: Investigation finds inmates built computers and hid them in prison ceiling
#188Earlier quoted context omitted.
I disagree based on this interesting story of an incident that reportedly happened at Google approx 3 years ago. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6750805 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6245316 This is all the data I've got on the state of industry; genuinely interested to hear tidbits from anybody that things aren't this ugly nowadays. I'm not in the demographic of people dealing with problematic pasts (and…
Thanks for those links. I read them originally but had forgotten.
The entire thread makes for insightful reading. I dug the links out last night and just reread the threads this morning.
Re: Investigation finds inmates built computers and hid them in prison ceiling
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not seeing anything unfair here. the society pays money to the government and in return have prisons. Society benefits from said prisons. If you're going to tackle unfairness in society, you should be aiming for the massive imbalance of wealth. Anything else is premature optimization
> I'm not seeing anything unfair here Yeah, because feeding and housing drug dealers for the money taken forcibly from an average Joe who works 12h a day to provide to his family is totally fair. > the society pays money to the government and in return have prisons. Society benefits from said prisons. This is very naive way of looking at it. > you should be aiming for the massive imbalance of wealth Wow, it didn't ta…
> This is very naive way of looking at it.
Why? The concept of prison is literally society funding a project to keep undesirable crime out of said society. That's fundamentally and exactly what it is. Calling that naive is like saying water being able to drown you is a naive position to hold.
I suggest visiting a lawless nation to observe what paying for prison does.
> Yeah, because feeding and housing drug dealers for the money taken forcibly from an average Joe who works 12h a day to provide to his family is totally fair.
You seem to not grasp (a) how many "drug dealers" (ooo scary, want to get a beer and find out what a former one is like?) are, themselves, average joes working twelves to provide money for their family, (b) that arguing about fairness is laughable when you're taking the positions that you are (fair for who?), and (c) how many "average joes" comprise the population of, especially minimum security, corrections for crimes you'd roll your eyes at. I was in with a guy who waived his trial timeframe completion rights -- different states call this by different names, and NEVER waive it -- and was in the middle of year three of being held, pretrial, for passing a single $600 bad check. Yes, really. His name was Isaiah and he was a black electrician. Nobody gave a shit, and I'm going to assume you don't either based on how you're arguing this.
(Blah blah, bleeding heart, I know.)
That you've indicted a whole group of real people because they've ended up in corrections is the lack of perspective I was warning you about elsewhere. They are humans. Just like you. People make mistakes. You should avoid speaking about them like they're cattle and are inferior to you or "average joes." Until you truly understand that, you're way on the wrong side of this. I promise.
Re: Investigation finds inmates built computers and hid them in prison ceiling
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's really ugly. Are you in the USA or Elsewhere? There was a thread linked a while back that may be of some relevance to you, let me dig it up. edit: here you go: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6750043
Yes I'm in the USA, specifically Lexington, KY. Thanks for the link.