sliding?
Turkey is sliding into dictatorship
101–110 of 123 posts
Re: Turkey is sliding into dictatorship
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
Erdogan used EU to get rid of the military check on Islamist trying to dismantle democracy. Eu is stupid. Every modern Turk warned them and no one listened. No the EU will reap what its sown.
> Erdogan used EU to get rid of the military check How did the EU do that?
> How did the EU do that?
“Since 1999, civilian control of the military has been strengthened. The constitutional and legal framework has been amended to clarify the position of the armed forces versus the civilian authorities,” the European Union said in its 2004 Progress Report on Turkey, which cited various developments with regard to civil-military ties. “A number of changes have been introduced over the last year to strengthen civilian control of the military with a view to aligning it with practice in EU member states.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil%E2%80%93military_relatio...
It is kind of funny that EU being so afraid of the military occasionally taking control of the civil government, EU paved way for the much more sinister threat of a transition to dictatorship. Very shortsighted.
Europeans like to blame America for meddling with foreign countries without any understanding of the consequences, but here EU did exactly the same.
Re: Turkey is sliding into dictatorship
#103This is even more reason to contribute to activists trying to stop the conversion of Hagia Sophia into a Mosque. It is a piece of 6th century history that we as a civilization just cannot afford to lose.
Yes, definitely a good reason to re-litigate historical events from 1451.
The Hagia Sophia was converted from mosque to museum in 1931-1935, so you must mean re-litigating historical events from 1930s?
Re: Turkey is sliding into dictatorship
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
If anything it should be a Orthodox Church, but since no one can agree on that, it should be transferred to UNESCO, and treated as a cultural site and museum. If it resumes being used as a Mosque, to avoid any slippery slope fallacies, it will most likely result in a lot of the preservation of the historicity of the location being lost.
I feel like it's use as a mosque is part of its history now. as long as they don't destroy any of the history it doesn't bother me that it is a mosque. EDIT: it's -> its
Hagia Sophia hasn't been a mosque since 1931.
Re: Turkey is sliding into dictatorship
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, definitely a good reason to re-litigate historical events from 1451.
The Hagia Sophia was converted from mosque to museum in 1931-1935, so you must mean re-litigating historical events from 1930s?
That would be a more effective rebuttal if the parent commenter hadn't confirmed the interpretation I took.
Re: Turkey is sliding into dictatorship
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
I didn't know Turkey's EU membership was still being considered. I think it's quite clear that EU membership will not happen under Erdogan or any government he or his successors set up. Even if he were removed, there is a long way to go. You have to be a free democratic country. Instead of working towards that, in the last year, all Turkey has done is show the world the opposite. How can you possibly expect things to…
>How can you possibly expect things to speed up when the Turkish government is doing everything it can to put the brakes on the deal? I was trying to say that Turks have, more or less, given up on joining the EU. Not because they don't want to, but because they feel like it has become hopeless. I agree that the past several years have done nothing to help the situation. Remember, Turkey joining is supposed to be mutu…
It is indeed a long time, much longer than i thought.. Then again, Turkey has always fared well with our coöperation ( it was a very popular tourist destination), this also isn't a reason for his current actions.
I think it's fair to say that the negotation is finally over and even a trade agreement shouldn't be in the making. You can't build trust with distrust. You can't start a trade agreement with threats.
Re: Turkey is sliding into dictatorship
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
Since what happened to Greece, I think we have to be carefull who we allow. I do agree that it is taking long, Turkey tries to force themselves in the EU. I don't think that's how a future member should act. The EU had been long in the making and a country that can't join in a span of 3 years of isn't bad considered the consequences it has on both sides
> ...can't join in a span of 3 years... Turkey first applied for membership to the EU about 30 years ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_the_European_Un...
I do agree, i'm suprised they started 30 years ago. Since Turkey isn't part of Europe.
https://www.reference.com/geography/turkey-part-europe-ad085...
Re: Turkey is sliding into dictatorship
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
> ...can't join in a span of 3 years... Turkey first applied for membership to the EU about 30 years ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_the_European_Un...
I do agree, i'm suprised they started 30 years ago. Since Turkey isn't part of Europe. https://www.reference.com/geography/turkey-part-europe-ad085...
> Since Turkey isn't part of Europe.
Ok, this is a completely separate point, which was discussed early on in Turkey's application, but I think the fact that talks have gone on this long indicates that EU officials do consider Turkey to be "close enough" to Europe.
Its a bit ambiguous, geographically speaking. UK, Ireland and even Cyprus were accepted into the EU. Georgia, Iceland, and Greenland are all considered possible candidates to join the EU if they want to. [1] (I'm aware that Greenland is a territory of Denmark but officially Greenland is not part of the EU.)
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:EU28-further_enlargement_...
Re: Turkey is sliding into dictatorship
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
Back when he was first elected in 2004, Erdogan was not the huge asshole that he is today. His party actually conducted a lot of useful reforms that were beneficial for the country. Over time though he slid into authoritarianism, and started jailing or exiling people who disagreed with him. Some people believe this was him showing his true colors, while others think it's a combination of his narcissism and severe par…
> Back when he was first elected in 2004, Erdogan was not the huge asshole that he is today. His party actually conducted a lot of useful reforms that were beneficial for the country. / Over time though he slid into authoritarianism That is the standard practice of authoritarians. Rarely do they announce before being elected, 'if you elect me, I'm going to do away with democracy and become a dictator'. First they get…
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Re: Turkey is sliding into dictatorship
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are calling Genocide of 1.5 million of their own citizens "banishment". And then you advice people to go and read on the subject. Your lack of education on the topic of Armenian Genocide is astonishing.
I am calling the relocation of troublesome Armenians to Syria as banishment. Armenians perished along the way, it wasn't a systematic killing. Death toll of Armenians were only 500.000 while it was 1 million on Turkish side. After living 600 years peacefully Armenians got greedy and betrayed Turkish people with the help of Russians. Check my first comment there was even Armenian ministers in the government that time,…
>> Armenians got greedy and betrayed Turkish people with the help of Russians.
Bulgarians got greedy, Greeks got greedy, Assyrians got greedy, Armenians got greedy.
* Bulgarian Genocide in Batak of 1876. The number of victims 7,000.
* Greek genocide 1914–1923. 900 000 Greeks were killed.
* Assyrian genocide 1914-1925. 750 000 Assyrians were killed
* Armenian Genocide 1915 - 1923. 1 500 000 Armenians were killed.
All these predominantly Christian minorities in Turkey for some reason got greedy.
I assume lately Kurds are getting greedy as well?