Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

josephg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

961–970 of 1001 posts

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#961

Post by pdimitar »

grinich wrote: post #956
pdimitar wrote: post #940

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you suggesting we're better off without competitors to the existing email desktop-clients? This is a false dichotomy and you are aware of that fact. This polarization shouldn't exist in the first place. And it can be eliminated with a small time investment. As developers of important apps, your contribution to the world influences culture. Other follow in your wake. Is that the influence to the world you really…

When you are a startup, time to market is literally the only priority.

We all work for money, I get that.

After you do that a number of times though, promise me something: please reflect on my words again in the future. Devs at important app shops are influencers for much more than technology. You should try and be a positive influencer of culture. Sometimes it comes with a financial cost and I've been guilty of going the way of the money in the past myself.

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#962

Post by namuol »

pdimitar wrote: post #940
namuol wrote: post #852

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [...] oblivious as you are to the real issues [...] I understand that you're frustrated, but this kind of language does not foster productive discourse. As I understand it, Nylas (grinich's OSS Email product/platform) wouldn't have been possible to build with a two-person dev team had they chosen to implement it in something other than Electron. Are you suggesting we're better off without competitors to the existin…

> Are you suggesting we're better off without competitors to the existing email desktop-clients? This is a false dichotomy and you are aware of that fact. This polarization shouldn't exist in the first place. And it can be eliminated with a small time investment. As developers of important apps, your contribution to the world influences culture. Other follow in your wake. Is that the influence to the world you really…

> [...] you treat a non-flattering language as me being frustrated [...]

You're right; I was being presumptuous about your emotional state. I apologize. -_-

Let me try to clarify: Companies like Slack and Nylas and Spotify understand the performance implications of using Electron and it _is_ a real problem, but the _benefits_ of using something like Electron, at least currently, outweigh the performance troubles.

There's simply a _much_ lower cost to iterate quickly on a web-driven application.

That said, we're all frustrated about the performance implications (users and companies alike), and this this is reflected in the direction the industry is taking.

I predict Electron _will_ become less popular in the next year or two as React Native desktop support becomes proven by one or more major players:

- Linux: https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/react-native

- OS X: https://github.com/ptmt/react-native-macos

- Windows: https://github.com/Microsoft/react-native-windows

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#963

Post by faaq »

sametmax wrote: post #159
wickedlogic wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. You just described modern computing.

Computing for ever. We use C to avoid writing assembly. Use Java to avoid writing C. Use Python to avoid writing Java. The world is asking for more and more software, and the resources to provide it are not following so people are taking shortcuts. Want something better ? Someone has to pay for it.

hehe, you remember me, that crystal, nim and rust are invented to avoid write C

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#964

Post by pdimitar »

namuol wrote: post #962
pdimitar wrote: post #940

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you suggesting we're better off without competitors to the existing email desktop-clients? This is a false dichotomy and you are aware of that fact. This polarization shouldn't exist in the first place. And it can be eliminated with a small time investment. As developers of important apps, your contribution to the world influences culture. Other follow in your wake. Is that the influence to the world you really…

> [...] you treat a non-flattering language as me being frustrated [...] You're right; I was being presumptuous about your emotional state. I apologize. -_- Let me try to clarify: Companies like Slack and Nylas and Spotify understand the performance implications of using Electron and it _is_ a real problem, but the _benefits_ of using something like Electron, at least currently, outweigh the performance troubles. The…

> You're right; I was being presumptuous about your emotional state. I apologize. -_-

Upvoted for you being nice and constructive. =) I could've been less harsh myself. Sorry!

> ...the _benefits_ of using something like Electron, at least currently, outweigh the performance troubles.

I get it, man. I've been there in the past. I understand your position.

> There's simply a _much_ lower cost to iterate quickly on a web-driven application...That said, we're all frustrated about the performance implications ...

Not arguing that, that's an undeniable fact.

> ...as React Native desktop support becomes proven by one or more major players:...

Yes. Nothing would make me happier. I started with Windows' crappy MFC, ATL etc. horrifying libraries and I've been immensely let down by the promise of Java Swing community that never managed to get its act together well enough to give you a quick and easy way to create cross-platform UIs. Desktop UI is like a hobo on a celebrity wedding: everybody knows it's there, everybody feels awkward about it, and nobody wants to improve its situation. And that's going for like 20 years now.

Us the slightly older generation of devs are guilty for the situation as well. We too had to go on about our day jobs and find a quick way around.

I guess I was a bit harsh because I expected the next generation to pick up the ball and dribble it better than us... >_Just don't give up! Make sure that you educate management periodically. Talk to them, convince them, give them analogical examples from the physical world so they get the problem on their level. Never give up the good fight; educate, iterate, improve.

I loved your app, by the way. I only uninstalled it because I am moving away from Gmail.

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#965

Post by grinich »

pdimitar wrote: post #961
grinich wrote: post #956

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you are a startup, time to market is literally the only priority.

We all work for money, I get that. After you do that a number of times though, promise me something: please reflect on my words again in the future. Devs at important app shops are influencers for much more than technology. You should try and be a positive influencer of culture. Sometimes it comes with a financial cost and I've been guilty of going the way of the money in the past myself.

I'm not saying other things aren't important or should be sacrificed. Just that when building a startup, if you can't get to market... you die. Having a great culture or clean code or beautiful design doesn't save you if you don't ship. Those are still all things which can kill the company later, but none of them kill you as immediately and completely as failure to ship. So time to market becomes the ultimate priority.

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#966

Post by grinich »

pdimitar wrote: post #964
namuol wrote: post #962

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [...] you treat a non-flattering language as me being frustrated [...] You're right; I was being presumptuous about your emotional state. I apologize. -_- Let me try to clarify: Companies like Slack and Nylas and Spotify understand the performance implications of using Electron and it _is_ a real problem, but the _benefits_ of using something like Electron, at least currently, outweigh the performance troubles. The…

> You're right; I was being presumptuous about your emotional state. I apologize. -_- Upvoted for you being nice and constructive. =) I could've been less harsh myself. Sorry! > ...the _benefits_ of using something like Electron, at least currently, outweigh the performance troubles. I get it, man. I've been there in the past. I understand your position. > There's simply a _much_ lower cost to iterate quickly on a we…

You can still use it with any IMAP service! :) We actually just launched the Windows & Linux beta today: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/04/nylas-mail-client-now-ava...

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#967

Post by grinich »

namuol wrote: post #962
pdimitar wrote: post #940

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you suggesting we're better off without competitors to the existing email desktop-clients? This is a false dichotomy and you are aware of that fact. This polarization shouldn't exist in the first place. And it can be eliminated with a small time investment. As developers of important apps, your contribution to the world influences culture. Other follow in your wake. Is that the influence to the world you really…

> [...] you treat a non-flattering language as me being frustrated [...] You're right; I was being presumptuous about your emotional state. I apologize. -_- Let me try to clarify: Companies like Slack and Nylas and Spotify understand the performance implications of using Electron and it _is_ a real problem, but the _benefits_ of using something like Electron, at least currently, outweigh the performance troubles. The…

I really hope React Native Desktop works but I am very skeptical since there still isn't the same coalition of large companies with apps in production using it. Right now React Native Mobile is being pushed by FB, Airbnb, Tesla, Bloomberg, Uber, Soundcloud, etc. and there are thousands of apps using it. React Native Desktop has nowhere near that momentum or support. It would probably be more effective for React Native Desktop to jump on the ElectronJS bandwagon and use it to push awareness, integration, and distribution since it's a pretty close use case.

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#968

Post by pdimitar »

grinich wrote: post #966
pdimitar wrote: post #964

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're right; I was being presumptuous about your emotional state. I apologize. -_- Upvoted for you being nice and constructive. =) I could've been less harsh myself. Sorry! > ...the _benefits_ of using something like Electron, at least currently, outweigh the performance troubles. I get it, man. I've been there in the past. I understand your position. > There's simply a _much_ lower cost to iterate quickly on a we…

You can still use it with any IMAP service! :) We actually just launched the Windows & Linux beta today: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/04/nylas-mail-client-now-ava...

Thanks! I'll give it a try when I move to one of the paid services.

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#969

Post by pdimitar »

grinich wrote: post #965
pdimitar wrote: post #961

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We all work for money, I get that. After you do that a number of times though, promise me something: please reflect on my words again in the future. Devs at important app shops are influencers for much more than technology. You should try and be a positive influencer of culture. Sometimes it comes with a financial cost and I've been guilty of going the way of the money in the past myself.

I'm not saying other things aren't important or should be sacrificed. Just that when building a startup, if you can't get to market... you die. Having a great culture or clean code or beautiful design doesn't save you if you don't ship. Those are still all things which can kill the company later, but none of them kill you as immediately and completely as failure to ship. So time to market becomes the ultimate priorit…

I think I'd be perfectly okay with that... IF the startup comes around later and rewrites the app to use less resource-intrusive tech. ^_^

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#970

Post by smokeyj »

ris wrote: post #959
smokeyj wrote: post #886

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you post this from a browser or using CURL? Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I rest my case.

And what was organizing your memory regions as you posted that? Some piece of javascript written by some hipster second week out of a hacker bootcamp or a properly designed malloc implementation? Not everything is what's visible on the surface.

You're countering by arguing that JS is a well engineered tool created by highly experienced engineers? I guess we'll just have to agree to violently agree.
Post reply on HN