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Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

josephg.com

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Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#931

Post by LeoNatan25 »

mlsarecmg wrote: post #910
Sophistifunk wrote: post #838

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Redux and co are still the same pattern fundamentally, it's just that the implementing code is spread throughout your stack, instead of in an "Observable" implementation. That combined with an optimisation allowing identity and state equality to be conflated.

I don't know what you're saying, this is the complete opposite. Redux was made to centralize, because observables are literally spread throughout the stack. The entire logic is combined in composeable containers, later wrapped in a single store. Flux pattern is also completely different in how it works, there's almost no similarity whatsoever. http://iweave.com/assets/blog/mvc_v_flux.png

That's not MVC. That's the MVC Facebook attempts to show in a ridiculous presentation that finally convinced me how much they had to misinform to get these silly concepts any legitimacy.

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#932

Post by ionised »

blueprint wrote: post #76
loppers92 wrote: post #54

Long time javascript programmers are the loser (if they never learned more than javascript) they don't know how to programming an almost perfect program. That is the reason why they using javascript on Desktop. The average programmer learns just one fucking language but being a good programmer you need at least to learn 2+ languages. That you can see the performance issues in your stack. I started with PHP and javasc…

Or maybe it has something to do with time-to-market for existing web apps, or other loserish things. No, can't be. You must be right. Especially because you know more than one language. After all, when you learn more languages, it makes your words more true!

I'm definitely more inclined to listen to a developer with knowledge of multiple languages than one who insists on stuffing Javascript everywhere.

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#933

Post by coldtea »

teyc wrote: post #854
mpweiher wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, I've been shipping desktop apps in Objective-C for roughly a quarter of a century. Gets me the high-level, Smalltalk-ish productivity when I want it (most of the time) and the low-level C efficiency when I need it (sometimes). Having my cake and eating it, that's me :-)

I'm curious how you get Smalltalk like productivity on objective C? I thought the productivity on Smalltalk comes from its live programming environment?

No, it also comes from it's expressiveness and flexibility (at runtime).

It's not like Smalltalk is a bad language that just happened to have a productive live programming environment.

It's one of the best languages out there, and conceptually stands alongside Lisp et al.

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#934

Post by ionised »

anaisbetts wrote: post #74

Here's the thing. You know what the alternative to all of these Electron apps coming out is? If your answer is "A native Cocoa/WPF app", you are on another planet, the answer is, "It wouldn't exist at all". Nobody in the last 5-10 years cared about writing Desktop apps before Electron came along, there's basically zero money in it, and it's massively expensive, both in terms of actual dev time per feature (easily 10x…

You should throw a disclaimer in here that you're an Electron Maintainer/Slack developer.

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#935

Post by ionised »

anaisbetts wrote: post #74

Here's the thing. You know what the alternative to all of these Electron apps coming out is? If your answer is "A native Cocoa/WPF app", you are on another planet, the answer is, "It wouldn't exist at all". Nobody in the last 5-10 years cared about writing Desktop apps before Electron came along, there's basically zero money in it, and it's massively expensive, both in terms of actual dev time per feature (easily 10x…

You should throw a disclaimer in here that you're an Electron maintainer/Slack developer.

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#936

Post by Gonzih »

zegerjan wrote: post #92
Gonzih wrote: post #61

Telegram Desktop is very good example of modern desktop client done in the most efficient way. C++ and qt, nothing else. Works like a charm an all major operating systems. Easy to install, use and update. Great stuff.

Except they've rewritten their Mac app in Swift now. So there must be a reason they moved away from that.

telegram-desktop and telegram for mac are different projects

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#937

Post by intoverflow2 »

anaisbetts wrote: post #74

Here's the thing. You know what the alternative to all of these Electron apps coming out is? If your answer is "A native Cocoa/WPF app", you are on another planet, the answer is, "It wouldn't exist at all". Nobody in the last 5-10 years cared about writing Desktop apps before Electron came along, there's basically zero money in it, and it's massively expensive, both in terms of actual dev time per feature (easily 10x…

Developer comfort over user needs in a nutshell for me.

Lost count of the number of times in my day to day work I see decisions made that make devs lives easier at the expense of performance or features.

Extremely pampered.

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#939

Post by z3t4 »

anaisbetts wrote: post #74

Here's the thing. You know what the alternative to all of these Electron apps coming out is? If your answer is "A native Cocoa/WPF app", you are on another planet, the answer is, "It wouldn't exist at all". Nobody in the last 5-10 years cared about writing Desktop apps before Electron came along, there's basically zero money in it, and it's massively expensive, both in terms of actual dev time per feature (easily 10x…

A better alternative is actually making a web app, and ship the server together with the client, for example a Node.JS script that does the stuff not supported by the browser, and runs the default browser for the graphical user interface.

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#940

Post by pdimitar »

namuol wrote: post #852
pdimitar wrote: post #780

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It pains me to see how a person responsbile for a pretty important app is as oblivious as you are to the real issues. Many people use laptops and their battery life matters a lot, being one "minor" factor. Not to mention that in a technical sense, your app really shouldn't take any CPU while idling. Doing a socket wait is something a Raspberry Pi Zero handles without going to more than 1% CPU, for half a second. At a…

> [...] oblivious as you are to the real issues [...] I understand that you're frustrated, but this kind of language does not foster productive discourse. As I understand it, Nylas (grinich's OSS Email product/platform) wouldn't have been possible to build with a two-person dev team had they chosen to implement it in something other than Electron. Are you suggesting we're better off without competitors to the existin…

> Are you suggesting we're better off without competitors to the existing email desktop-clients?

This is a false dichotomy and you are aware of that fact. This polarization shouldn't exist in the first place. And it can be eliminated with a small time investment.

As developers of important apps, your contribution to the world influences culture. Other follow in your wake. Is that the influence to the world you really want to give to other programmers and business people? Time to market is not the only priority.

That you treat a non-flattering language as me being frustrated tells me you will not understand that side of the argument however. So let's agree to disagree and move on.

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