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Investigation finds inmates built computers and hid them in prison ceiling

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Re: Investigation finds inmates built computers and hid them in prison ceiling

#121

Post by scoobydoo123 »

jacquesm wrote: post #113
scoobydoo123 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. The basic rule of economics is that you have to give something in order to get something. Inmates should be given a choice of working and making money so they can pay for their living or do nothing and starve to death - just like any other member of the society outside of prison. What you're talking about is really a disproportion between amount of work they make (and value they produce) and the total amo…

> Inmates should be given a choice of working and making money so they can pay for their living or do nothing and starve to death - just like any other member of the society outside of prison. Their freedom to negotiate has been taken away, therefore they do not have any choices. > What you're talking about is really a disproportion between amount of work they make (and value they produce) and the total amount of pay…

> That depends on the situation but is ultimately un-important

It actually is very important because this is exactly what distinguishes between labour slavery and ordinary paid work.

Economic rules is not something that one can decide whether it applies or not. It's like telling that mathematical axioms don't apply in prison - sure, you can make people believe that 2 + 2 = 5 but this is nothing more than just rejecting the reality.

Re: Investigation finds inmates built computers and hid them in prison ceiling

#122

Post by kpil »

ant6n wrote: post #118
narag wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...freedom for a specified period of time should be the total of their debt to society. I always find the retributionist theory unconfortable. I'd rather understand incarceration as a protection for potential new victims and a warning to others. Also it should be a way to "fix" the inmates, but unfortunately that's often wishful thinking.

Rehabilitation is probably much more likely if your society believes that this is the main purpose of incarceration.

Rehabilitation is perhaps possible for certain criminals - why not give everyone the benefit of a doubt, but not an unlimited number of times.

I personally think that if a person has been convicted for battery or something worse more than once, the protection of others needs to be prioritized.

But it's also worth considering that the prisons in US (or pretty much anywhere) are probably not the best rehabilitating environments, so there seems to be room for improvement...

Re: Investigation finds inmates built computers and hid them in prison ceiling

#123

Post by kpil »

ant6n wrote: post #118
narag wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...freedom for a specified period of time should be the total of their debt to society. I always find the retributionist theory unconfortable. I'd rather understand incarceration as a protection for potential new victims and a warning to others. Also it should be a way to "fix" the inmates, but unfortunately that's often wishful thinking.

Rehabilitation is probably much more likely if your society believes that this is the main purpose of incarceration.

Rehabilitation is perhaps possible for certain criminals - why not give everyone the benefit of a doubt, but not an unlimited number of times.

I personally think that if a person has been convicted for battery or something worse more than once, the protection of others needs to be prioritized.

But it's also worth considering that the prisons in US (or pretty much anywhere) are probably not the best rehabilitating environments, so there seems to be room for improvement...

Re: Investigation finds inmates built computers and hid them in prison ceiling

#124

Post by metafunctor »

nebabyte wrote: post #114
metafunctor wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humour is appreciated. I usually don't upvote humorous posts, unless they are exceedingly funny, because I don't want this site to turn into Reddit. But hey, go ahead and try to turn HN into Reddit if you guys feel that's where it needs to go. I feel we've already seen how useful a Reddit is to the world.

> please don't submit comments saying that HN is turning into Reddit. It's a common semi-noob illusion Either this thread (every time it comes up) needs to be curbed or the FAQ needs to be edited

Yeah, I've only been here like 8 years as a registered user. Mostly lurking, and clearly still a noob, hmm?

Re: Investigation finds inmates built computers and hid them in prison ceiling

#125

Post by jacquesm »

scoobydoo123 wrote: post #121
jacquesm wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Inmates should be given a choice of working and making money so they can pay for their living or do nothing and starve to death - just like any other member of the society outside of prison. Their freedom to negotiate has been taken away, therefore they do not have any choices. > What you're talking about is really a disproportion between amount of work they make (and value they produce) and the total amount of pay…

> That depends on the situation but is ultimately un-important It actually is very important because this is exactly what distinguishes between labour slavery and ordinary paid work. Economic rules is not something that one can decide whether it applies or not. It's like telling that mathematical axioms don't apply in prison - sure, you can make people believe that 2 + 2 = 5 but this is nothing more than just rejecti…

In ordinary paid work both sides have consideration and freedom. In this case they don't so you can't compare it to 'ordinary work', it isn't.

That leaves 'forced labor' as the only other option if you feel that letting people starve to death is a viable alternative (as you did in your earlier comment).

The rest of your comment is not applicable.

Re: Investigation finds inmates built computers and hid them in prison ceiling

#126

Post by metafunctor »

sametmax wrote: post #112
metafunctor wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? We already have one Reddit.

Because people here are taking themselves too seriously. A bit of humor and subculture could ease them on. You can be an expert/millionaire/famouswhatever and enjoy something else than endless debates where people are trying to be technically correct and pessimistic to the bones. Maybe it's just me ?

I enjoy being technically correct. I don't enjoy someone else's subculture and humour. I never feel like I fit in with those.

Re: Investigation finds inmates built computers and hid them in prison ceiling

#127

Post by mason240 »

antman wrote: post #65

They should be immediately released and then hired. Apparently the prison system needs their skills.

>One inmate, Adam Johnston

He killed a man during a robbery.

http://odrc.drc.ohio.gov/OffenderSearch/details.aspx?id=A414...

Re: Investigation finds inmates built computers and hid them in prison ceiling

#128

Post by mason240 »

djsumdog wrote: post #28
Banthum wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People end up in prison for a reason. Though how I wish it wasn't so.

Yes, they do. Sometimes it's cause cops make up a crime. Sometimes it's because they had a little bit of weed on them at a traffic stop. Sometimes it's because they commit a real crime that actually harms someone. Many times it's because one of the things above happened, they got out, wanted to go straight, and no one would hire them for anything because they had a criminal record. They tried to live straight, get so…

>One inmate, Adam Johnston

In this case, it was because he killed a man during a robbery.

http://odrc.drc.ohio.gov/OffenderSearch/details.aspx?id=A414...

Re: Investigation finds inmates built computers and hid them in prison ceiling

#129

Post by kirykl »

CalRobert wrote: post #48
paulajohnson wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. You can learn a lot of Javascript by breaking up old computers. This isn't an "education", its just slave labour.

Which, indeed, is legal in the US. " Amendment XIII Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted , shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation. "

Is that referring though to involuntary labor or involuntary serving of "time"

Re: Investigation finds inmates built computers and hid them in prison ceiling

#130

Post by mason240 »

cooper12 wrote: post #9
Banthum wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People end up in prison for a reason. Though how I wish it wasn't so.

People have gone to the prison in the past solely because of the color of their skin or because of their religion. People today go to prison just for possessing a plant or criticizing their head of state. Let's not pretend that being in prison is anything other than a moral judgement rather than an indication of someone's character. It just makes it easier to dehumanize prisoners ("they deserve it") and harder for th…

>People have gone to the prison in the past solely because of the color of their skin or because of their religion.

The only inmate named in the story was a white guy who who murdered someone during a robbery.

http://odrc.drc.ohio.gov/OffenderSearch/details.aspx?id=A414...

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