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Investigation finds inmates built computers and hid them in prison ceiling

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Re: Investigation finds inmates built computers and hid them in prison ceiling

#101

Post by jacquesm »

nsxwolf wrote: post #100
jacquesm wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, given the fact that former inmates are just ordinary people again you'd think the likelihood of them attaining either job would be related to their skill level and aptitude. If you'd teach them javascript in prison their chances of landing a javascript front-end engineer would go up dramatically, if you only teach them how to rip up old computers then maybe they'll find a job in recycling at lower pay with a hi…

If you teach them JavaScript in prison soon we will all be competing with actual slave labor and not just offshore teams.

What's wrong with teaching in prison? Or do you think that the prison industrial complex would immediately move on to exploiting those skills?

Re: Investigation finds inmates built computers and hid them in prison ceiling

#102

Post by rayiner »

paulajohnson wrote: post #39
jameslk wrote: post #18

> The inmates were able to get the parts from a program where inmates break down computers in order to learn computer skills and recycle the parts. It appears the program provided an effective education.

Right. You can learn a lot of Javascript by breaking up old computers. This isn't an "education", its just slave labour.

Learning JavaScript is the only "computer skill?" Assembling computers isn't a job?

Re: Investigation finds inmates built computers and hid them in prison ceiling

#103

Post by jacquesm »

scoobydoo123 wrote: post #98
jacquesm wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is so terribly out-dated. The fact that a prisoner loses their freedom for a specified period of time should be the total of their debt to society. Some reform on this front would be good but I think it will be many decades before the US is ready to confront these things, if it doesn't fall apart beforehand due to the ever increasing divide, both geographically and ideologically.

> should be the total of their debt to society I call it BS. Why should ordinary people work and pay for criminals?

Because ordinary people are just as much a part of society as the criminals that society has decided to lock away.

By forcing criminals to work for free society is paying in another way: that work would have been done by someone on the outside, but you can't compete with slave labor.

So this is bad both for the inmates and for society from an economic point of view, and then we're side-stepping the moral issue.

Re: Investigation finds inmates built computers and hid them in prison ceiling

#104

Post by ge96 »

geon wrote: post #36
walrus01 wrote: post #4

Here's hoping they didn't smuggle a full size ATX motherboard through the facility using the 'old fashioned' prison method. Or even a 3.5" SATA hard drive...

Put them way up inside there, as far as they can fit.

S3 is out man wooo

edit: well started anyway

Re: Investigation finds inmates built computers and hid them in prison ceiling

#105

Post by ge96 »

rl3 wrote: post #46
stephengillie wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The prison transportation infrastructure vastly subsidizes Arduino Minis for this reason.

I'd say the Pi Zero is a far superior option. Vastly more computing power with only minimal additional pain. Bonus points if you hook it up to a battery and SSH into it during transit. Probably not the best idea to have something inside of you that occasionally catches fire, though. https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/pi-zero/

Man that sucks, although in my case it would be a soldering job concern. I can't believe the Pi Zero was the only server I've gotten crontab to work so far. Tried Debian/Ubuntu I don't know why I can't get cron to run. I just want bots but a physical thing on my end I imagine is not as reliable as a hosted server (rent) for developing bots that run constantly gather stuff.

Re: Investigation finds inmates built computers and hid them in prison ceiling

#106

Post by ge96 »

nerdponx wrote: post #11
greglindahl wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blekko had a contract with a VPN provider for search, and they were very popular in Egypt during the Arab Spring. We were hoping that we were powering curiosity about freedom, but the query stream was... 100% porn queries.

To be fair, porn is pretty benign, and the freedom to consume the porn of your choice is something we probably take for granted too much in the United States.

I wonder with that privacy ISP thing... yeap this guy watches... doesn't take Big Data to figure this guy out.

Re: Investigation finds inmates built computers and hid them in prison ceiling

#108

Post by rayiner »

jacquesm wrote: post #82
CalRobert wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which, indeed, is legal in the US. " Amendment XIII Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted , shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation. "

That is so terribly out-dated. The fact that a prisoner loses their freedom for a specified period of time should be the total of their debt to society. Some reform on this front would be good but I think it will be many decades before the US is ready to confront these things, if it doesn't fall apart beforehand due to the ever increasing divide, both geographically and ideologically.

I think using inmate labor for money should be illegal, but I'm not sure prison would be workable at all without the 13th amendment. What counts as "forced labor?" Does that include forcing inmates to clean up after themselves in their cells or in cafeterias? Note that e.g. the German constitution has a similar carve out for prisoners.

Re: Investigation finds inmates built computers and hid them in prison ceiling

#109

Post by jacquesm »

rayiner wrote: post #108
jacquesm wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is so terribly out-dated. The fact that a prisoner loses their freedom for a specified period of time should be the total of their debt to society. Some reform on this front would be good but I think it will be many decades before the US is ready to confront these things, if it doesn't fall apart beforehand due to the ever increasing divide, both geographically and ideologically.

I think using inmate labor for money should be illegal, but I'm not sure prison would be workable at all without the 13th amendment. What counts as "forced labor?" Does that include forcing inmates to clean up after themselves in their cells or in cafeterias? Note that e.g. the German constitution has a similar carve out for prisoners.

Forced labor is labor that goes outside of the normal housekeeping routine for prisoners. It's really not that hard to make that distinction, you could even do it through the bookkeeping department: any time the prison or its operators are compensated directly or indirectly by outside parties for work done by prisoners that's forced labor too.

Keeping their cell and spaces they use voluntarily clean: not forced labor, just housekeeping. Keeping common spaces clean: forced labor, the operating of the prison itself is at the expense of the state.

If prisoners are allowed to do any of that work they should be compensated at market rates to make sure there is no unfair competition.

Re: Investigation finds inmates built computers and hid them in prison ceiling

#110

Post by scoobydoo123 »

jacquesm wrote: post #103
scoobydoo123 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> should be the total of their debt to society I call it BS. Why should ordinary people work and pay for criminals?

Because ordinary people are just as much a part of society as the criminals that society has decided to lock away. By forcing criminals to work for free society is paying in another way: that work would have been done by someone on the outside, but you can't compete with slave labor. So this is bad both for the inmates and for society from an economic point of view, and then we're side-stepping the moral issue.

Not really. The basic rule of economics is that you have to give something in order to get something. Inmates should be given a choice of working and making money so they can pay for their living or do nothing and starve to death - just like any other member of the society outside of prison.

What you're talking about is really a disproportion between amount of work they make (and value they produce) and the total amount of pay they receive for delivering that value.

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