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Investigation finds inmates built computers and hid them in prison ceiling

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Re: Investigation finds inmates built computers and hid them in prison ceiling

#91

Post by rm_-rf_slash »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #87
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legal and pushed for by the "prison industry", which has lobbyists in place to keep punishments high, tolerance low, and their low/no-wage workforce in place - whilst also getting paid by the government for housing inmates (and they send fines to government if the government doesn't meet their inmate quotas)

I was going to write that that amendment is from the Civil War, before the private prison complex could develop, lobby for, and become dependent on prison labor. But a bit of research showed that prisons were not exactly bastions of human rights in the good old days.

You can draw a straight line from the 13th Amendment to the private prisons of today. After all, the southern states whose economy was ruined by the Civil War had to get cheap labor somehow, so they arrested all those former slaves for random bullshit like loitering, had them convicted by all-white juries, and sent them to work in chain gangs.

Netflix produced a great documentary about all of this - 13th - and it's well worth the watch.

Re: Investigation finds inmates built computers and hid them in prison ceiling

#92

Post by moomin »

jacquesm wrote: post #82
CalRobert wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which, indeed, is legal in the US. " Amendment XIII Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted , shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation. "

That is so terribly out-dated. The fact that a prisoner loses their freedom for a specified period of time should be the total of their debt to society. Some reform on this front would be good but I think it will be many decades before the US is ready to confront these things, if it doesn't fall apart beforehand due to the ever increasing divide, both geographically and ideologically.

Netflix has a documentary called 13th that (amongst other things) lays out exactly how America has driven a coach and horses through that particular loophole.

Re: Investigation finds inmates built computers and hid them in prison ceiling

#93

Post by vacri »

Vexs wrote: post #56
vacri wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1% of Americans have been through the incarceration system. That's insane. That's not quite correct. 1% of American adults are currently incarcerated. There's nearly 2.5M current prisoners, and the US total population is about 310M, so once you remove kids from that 'total pop' count...

Wouldn't that make the number higher then, if you're counting people that have been through the system? Some rough numbers from the US justice website say more than 650000 people are released from prison each year, and two thirds are back within another three years, which seems to me that a lot more than 1% touch the system. Unfortunately, it's 4 in the morning, and I'd spend a good hour or so looking up better stats…

Yes, sorry, I meant that the situation is actually worse than the GP suggested - the "1%" is "currently", not "ever".

Re: Investigation finds inmates built computers and hid them in prison ceiling

#94

Post by dghf »

a_puppy wrote: post #60
djsumdog wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they do. Sometimes it's cause cops make up a crime. Sometimes it's because they had a little bit of weed on them at a traffic stop. Sometimes it's because they commit a real crime that actually harms someone. Many times it's because one of the things above happened, they got out, wanted to go straight, and no one would hire them for anything because they had a criminal record. They tried to live straight, get so…

According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics [0], 52% of convicted felons in state prisons are there for a violent crime; 18% for property crimes; 18% for drug crimes; and 9% for public order crimes [1]. Violent crimes obviously harm someone. I would guess that property crimes and some of the public order crimes do as well---remember that we're talking about felony convictions, which means crimes that resulted in a…

Violent offenders tend to serve longer sentences than others (expected to be ~3 times longer on average than most other categories, according to the BJS article you reference), which is part of the reason they make up such a large part of the prison population at any given time.

In terms of number of people sent to prison, they're less prominent: again from the BJS article, admissions to state prisons in 2009 with sentences >= 1 year broke down like this: 27% violent; 30% property; 29% drug; 14% public order; 1% other.

Re: Investigation finds inmates built computers and hid them in prison ceiling

#95

Post by narag »

jacquesm wrote: post #82
CalRobert wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which, indeed, is legal in the US. " Amendment XIII Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted , shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation. "

That is so terribly out-dated. The fact that a prisoner loses their freedom for a specified period of time should be the total of their debt to society. Some reform on this front would be good but I think it will be many decades before the US is ready to confront these things, if it doesn't fall apart beforehand due to the ever increasing divide, both geographically and ideologically.

...freedom for a specified period of time should be the total of their debt to society.

I always find the retributionist theory unconfortable. I'd rather understand incarceration as a protection for potential new victims and a warning to others. Also it should be a way to "fix" the inmates, but unfortunately that's often wishful thinking.

Re: Investigation finds inmates built computers and hid them in prison ceiling

#96

Post by amarant »

paulajohnson wrote: post #39
jameslk wrote: post #18

> The inmates were able to get the parts from a program where inmates break down computers in order to learn computer skills and recycle the parts. It appears the program provided an effective education.

Right. You can learn a lot of Javascript by breaking up old computers. This isn't an "education", its just slave labour.

because no computer skills that's not javascript are useful?

clearly they learned how to assemble computer hardware, sounds like education to me...

Re: Investigation finds inmates built computers and hid them in prison ceiling

#97

Post by [deleted] »

Vexs wrote: post #56
vacri wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1% of Americans have been through the incarceration system. That's insane. That's not quite correct. 1% of American adults are currently incarcerated. There's nearly 2.5M current prisoners, and the US total population is about 310M, so once you remove kids from that 'total pop' count...

Wouldn't that make the number higher then, if you're counting people that have been through the system? Some rough numbers from the US justice website say more than 650000 people are released from prison each year, and two thirds are back within another three years, which seems to me that a lot more than 1% touch the system. Unfortunately, it's 4 in the morning, and I'd spend a good hour or so looking up better stats…

[deleted]

Re: Investigation finds inmates built computers and hid them in prison ceiling

#98

Post by scoobydoo123 »

jacquesm wrote: post #82
CalRobert wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which, indeed, is legal in the US. " Amendment XIII Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted , shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation. "

That is so terribly out-dated. The fact that a prisoner loses their freedom for a specified period of time should be the total of their debt to society. Some reform on this front would be good but I think it will be many decades before the US is ready to confront these things, if it doesn't fall apart beforehand due to the ever increasing divide, both geographically and ideologically.

> should be the total of their debt to society

I call it BS. Why should ordinary people work and pay for criminals?

Re: Investigation finds inmates built computers and hid them in prison ceiling

#99

Post by paulajohnson »

amarant wrote: post #96
paulajohnson wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. You can learn a lot of Javascript by breaking up old computers. This isn't an "education", its just slave labour.

because no computer skills that's not javascript are useful? clearly they learned how to assemble computer hardware, sounds like education to me...

I doubt they learned anything in prison; this is stuff they knew when they came in. Don't assume that everyone in prison is some kind of illiterate moron.

Re: Investigation finds inmates built computers and hid them in prison ceiling

#100

Post by nsxwolf »

jacquesm wrote: post #83
adrianN wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's a more likely job for a former inmate: Computer repair technician (rip out broken parts, put new parts in) or Javascript frontend engineer?

Well, given the fact that former inmates are just ordinary people again you'd think the likelihood of them attaining either job would be related to their skill level and aptitude. If you'd teach them javascript in prison their chances of landing a javascript front-end engineer would go up dramatically, if you only teach them how to rip up old computers then maybe they'll find a job in recycling at lower pay with a hi…

If you teach them JavaScript in prison soon we will all be competing with actual slave labor and not just offshore teams.
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