Live data from Hacker News

Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

drupalconfessions.org

71–80 of 341 posts

Re: Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

#71
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eich was CEO, though. It's a special position in any organization. The board can ask you to leave at any time if you seem to be a liability, and the mere optics of a PR issue can be enough. That's why CEOs often have such generous compensation packages in the event of involuntary termination.

Eich didn't engage in advocacy as an executive, he did so as a private citizen.

He was being paid by Mozilla, and that money then ended up in the hands of people who weaponized that money against values that the people who financed that salary held. If people can't even vote with their wallets anymore, then we are creating a situation of moral hazard.

Re: Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

#73
post #44

Expanding on one of the comments that might clear up what we're actually talking about (which wasn't made especially clear otherwise): >> "The Gorean philosophy promoted by Larry is based on the principle that women are evolutionarily predisposed to serve men and that the natural order is for men to dominate and lead." Even assuming this is Larry's philosophy, it is pretty much the same philosophy shared by many wome…

> ...as long as that belief is not in some way construed as a community value... I honestly don't care about that even, as long as people can discuss their ideas and leave the group if they're done tolerating each other. > It's one of the simple facts of life that you pretty have to work with people who believe all kinds of things... In popular usage, "tolerance" is slowly becoming synonymous with "acceptance" or "ce…

It feels like this new "tolerance" somehow connotates "without bias" instead of "despite bias", which opens an avenue for persecuting perceived or potential bias (by some reasoning from base moral values) as a thought crime. This makes anything less than complete moral alignment a cause for bias and therefore "intolerance".

Tolerance and persecution together in harmony.

Re: Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

#74
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eich was CEO, though. It's a special position in any organization. The board can ask you to leave at any time if you seem to be a liability, and the mere optics of a PR issue can be enough. That's why CEOs often have such generous compensation packages in the event of involuntary termination.

> The board can ask you to leave at any time if you seem to be a liability... It's worth noting that many of the objections are about private information being misused. Eich was actually outed from a donor list that was leaked. There's a lot of parallels here if the concern is about "doxxing" activities. I also have a really hard time with the "but CEOs are different argument". So could being a Democrat in a red stat…

> In other words, are we saying that only certain kinds of people can be CEOs?

In short, yes.

There are plenty of rational people out there who don't care what someone does in their private life as long as it doesn't have a readily apparent effect on business. It's a shame that all people cannot be like this, because there are others who take a hard line stance against certain private matter that someone else may hold. That is, the fact that a CEO is a Dom in a D/s relationship will resonate so negatively with some people that is can adversely impact business.

Do you remember the Cheerios commercial[0] with the interracial family? People have much bigger skeletons in their closets, and from a business standpoint, that's a liability. It's not right. It's not fair. But it's reality.

[0]: http://www.today.com/news/cheerios-ad-mixed-race-family-draw...

Re: Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without getting into controversial labels, it's not clear to me who did what to whom and what the people are petitioning for. I seemed to me that (all allegedly) someone was outed as into BDSM and was somehow treated unfairly. I think that certainly falls into the domain of liberal sexual identity politics.

The problem is that Larry's brand of BDSM (Gor) is not the "right" form of BDSM, as supported by "liberal sexual identity politics". As such, he was outed, smeared, and asked to leave the Drupal community.

He was asked to leave the Drupal community by its community leader against the recommendations of its Code of Conduct board, to a large amount of backlash by pretty much everybody, including many of those evil social justice warriors.

Gor is, for the most part, a personal way of going about one's private relationships. Unlike e.g. red pill doctrine, Goreans still respect consent at its core. Men and women both enter into Gorean relationships with full knowledge of what they entail, and generally speaking, the ability to leave if they find it necessary. Goreans don't "promote" their relationship model as a way that they think everyone should view the world at all times, and put down people who don't think that way.

In short - there's really nothing there for SJW types to be upset about. This is some guy who decided to discriminate against someone for how they go about their relationships and sexuality - precisely the sort of behaviour we're almost always against.

Re: Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

#76
Personal experience: I met a good chunk of the people involved, and they're weirdos who we chose not to have business dealings with because you could tell something was off. We poached one of their best developers, who jumped ship the moment they saw we offered a less insane place to work. The rest of the community were too far up their own duffs to even notice us, and they were all geeking over going to their version of summer camp together.

The Drupal community- at least the outspoken ones in my area- are just the sort of self propagating incestuous clique that I knew this was going to happen. Have you actually seen Garfield? Dude shows up to conferences wearing a leather fedora with a matching leather vest. He is not a senior citizen. If you page back a bit, Garfield was one of those calling for people to hunt down the vile misogynist GamerGaters. I would wager he doxxed people he disagreed with during that event.

Imagine for a moment that Garfield is not a feminist. Maybe he's even an outspoken anti-feminist. And the Drupal community finds out that this anti-feminist used to lock up a severely autistic girl in his basement, and that he wears a fedora, and that he actively participates in a community that celebrates violent sexual acts against women in literature. Would the community care about consent? Would the community defend that person's right to privacy? Would the community preach tolerance? Or would they "punch the Nazi"?

I suggest the latter. This whole episode shows exactly what happens to someone guilty of wrongthink. The real debate they're having between the lines is only whether he's guilty or not. And guilt depends largely on which piece of clickbait journalism people read first, or what issue someone is more of an activist about.

Our company still uses Drupal, but nobody from our company is going to go to summer camp with the Drupal community.

Re: Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

#77
post #44

Expanding on one of the comments that might clear up what we're actually talking about (which wasn't made especially clear otherwise): >> "The Gorean philosophy promoted by Larry is based on the principle that women are evolutionarily predisposed to serve men and that the natural order is for men to dominate and lead." Even assuming this is Larry's philosophy, it is pretty much the same philosophy shared by many wome…

[deleted]

Re: Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

#78

There is an important point that is being missed in this conversation. There are facts that are undisputed by both sides of the argument: - Should a person have a right to privacy? Yes - Should a person be discriminated based on their beliefs? No - Should a person in leadership be forced to expose their private life? No There are two questions, however, that is causing everyone to trip over themselves and table-flip:…

If a person in leadership has their private life exposed (fairly or unfairly), does that affect their leadership role?

This has not been a controversial question in the modern nation state for nearing about 200 years now in "the West" until several small but very vocal groups have implicitly been taking a pick-axe to what I see as a pretty basic truth: the difference between corrective action in the public vs. the private sphere is a restriction on the public side to objectively measured action. Private thought in general doesn't hold water until violation of actual behavior can first be proven, and only then is intent needed.

Re: Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

#80
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've started to mentally replace the words "inclusion and diversity" with "conformity" on certain places on the net.

Agreed. These people are essentially bullies acting from their ivory tower of unchallengable beliefs and morals. Their non-sense such as "he holds views that are in opposition with the values of the Drupal project." actually do more to suppress tolerance, diversity, and inclusion than encourage it. tl;dr think like me or I throw the dummy out the pram. I wish techies would get back to focusing on tech, it seems every…

They're in a capitalist meritocracy, this sort of nonsense is just their hilarious attempt to recoup the costs they sunk into this project.

Branch off into your own community and accept that you made a mistake jumping in without testing whether your "leader" was acceptable to your standard of "tolerance". It's not on them to change how they run something you literally gave up control over just because it was convenient for you at the time.

Lol @ them listing their donations and time 'wasted' on something they had no idea or assurance of control over. I'm reminded of the Bane scene. "I gave you a lot of money..." "And this gives you power over me?"

Next time, get it in (legal) writing, folks! :)

Post reply on HN