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Why Slack is inappropriate for open source communications

dave.cheney.net

131–140 of 536 posts

Re: Why Slack is inappropriate for open source communications

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also TheLounge and ircanywhere which try to be FOSS IRCCloud

Eh, no, if you want to get a FLOSS product comparable to IRCCloud, Quassel + Quassel-Webserver are more appropriate comparisons. TheLounge and ircanywhere are missing a lot in comparison.

What is Lounge missing compared to IRCCloud?

Re: Why Slack is inappropriate for open source communications

#132
post #81

Good points but the bigger problem for me is the lack of an archive. You only have the last 10k (?) messages and that includes public and private messages. If you have a mildly active project, messages may only be available for a month and you lose the history of the project. That makes it an awful support option too.

Just a note: if you go from free to paid, you can recover those lost messages. They're never actually deleted, you just can't view messages after the 10k limit in the free version.

Wow, that is kind of evil. I could understand if Slack kept, say, the last 20k or 50k and only showed the most recent 10k. For them to store all the messages indefinitely for all free servers means that they are incurring the same storage costs whether the server is free or paid. Are the bandwidth costs really that high to justify hiding all those messages (likely on the order of 100k or 1M for many servers) ?

Re: Why Slack is inappropriate for open source communications

#133
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've started counting the minutes that I use in a day just logging in to things with our SSO, because it has started to actually add up, haha. It has gotten silly. If you need to log in more than once, can you really call it SSO? =)

If it's anything like my experience, the trip from clicking on the button to open the app and wait for the myriad of redirects, before clicking through to the page you actually want to monitor is non-trivial (and sometimes doesn't occur if the tab isn't in the foreground). I don't have that many open, and it still takes me around 5 minutes every day to open them back up.

At least you have SSO! Imagine what if you had different credentials to each of these services (even logins)! There are big companies that operate like that...

Re: Why Slack is inappropriate for open source communications

#134
Tangentially, I don't get how developers on the one hand strive for private offices and no (physical) interruptions, but on the other want to communicate through chat channels. Maybe these are different people altogether, and I'm just getting the wrong impression. But personally I prefer a little personal interaction over a long chat.

Re: Why Slack is inappropriate for open source communications

#135
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So get a better IRC client? Really not hard to do things like syntax formatting and auto link follow (GUI versions of IRCII had plugins for this in the late 90s, so it's not like it's even a novel idea).

IRC as a protocol is very outdated. If I log in at home and forgot out log out at work, I need another username. IRCv3 has a lot of enhancements that should move IRC out of the 1990s as far as a communication protocol, but there's not a whole lot of movement on it. I think FreeNode has some v3 support. We don't have a lot of developers dedicating time to this. I'd love to myself, because it's something the OSS commun…

> but there's not a whole lot of movement on it. I think FreeNode has some v3 support.

That’s as wrong as you can get.

Networks with support, ranked by amount of supported features, are: InspIRCd Testnet, EsperNet, IRCCloud Teams, Snoonet, Rizon, IRCHighWay, freenode: http://ircv3.net/support/networks.html

Clients with support, ranked alphabetically, are:

Desktop: AdilIRC, BitchX, ChatZilla, Colloquy, Conspire, Hexchat, IceChat, Instantbird, Irssi, Konversation, KVIrc, LimeChat, mIRC, Mozilla Thunderbird, Quassel, Textual, WeeChat.

Web: IRCCLoud, Iris, Kiwi IRC, The Lounge, Mibbit, Quassel-Webserver

Mobile: AndChat, IRC for Android, AndroIRC, Colloquy, IRC7, IRCCloud, LimeChat, Palaver, Quasseldroid, YAAIC

Bouncers: Quassel, ZNC

Bots: Limnoria, Sopel, Moon Moon

http://ircv3.net/software/clients.html

And libraries are: cinch, Communi, irc-framework, Kitteh IRC Client Library, Net::Async::IRC, pydle, Rust irc, Warren, zIRC

That’s quite a whole lot of movement. That’s every project related to IRC

Re: Why Slack is inappropriate for open source communications

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, no, if you want to get a FLOSS product comparable to IRCCloud, Quassel + Quassel-Webserver are more appropriate comparisons. TheLounge and ircanywhere are missing a lot in comparison.

What is Lounge missing compared to IRCCloud?

Mobile.

And other projects, including the GPL project Quassel, do have mobile clients (although Quasseldroid, which I maintain, isn’t exactly the best client in the world).

Re: Why Slack is inappropriate for open source communications

#137
post #52

It's frustrating that the choice seems to be between modern closed tools like Slack and Hangouts and antiquated open tools like IRC and mailing lists.

What really needs to die is the view that old tools are bad tools. In my experience, the most useful tools I use (standard unix utilities, vim, emacs, lisp, etc) are the oldest ones while the newer ones are the ones I could most easily replace.

Re: Why Slack is inappropriate for open source communications

#138

Does Slack's terms of use forbidden creating an off platform archive? If not, given that searchable archives are one of the ways Slack makes money, makes me wonder why there's not an open source way to pull the chats and archive them in a way that's cheaper and independent of Slack.

forbid creating an off platform archive I'm not sure that's a substantively enforceable idea. Just try and stop me?

Break the terms of service, and you'll be booted off. Be a large enough problem, as they see it, and you'll get the entire project booted off.

Probably they don't care enough to enforce, but surely you see it's part of the problem that they could?

Re: Why Slack is inappropriate for open source communications

#139

Tangentially, I don't get how developers on the one hand strive for private offices and no (physical) interruptions, but on the other want to communicate through chat channels. Maybe these are different people altogether, and I'm just getting the wrong impression. But personally I prefer a little personal interaction over a long chat.

I'm with you on the personal interaction but I think people like slack/email/IM because it allows them to be in control of their communication. If someone drops by your office/cube, it snaps you out of your flow and you have to work to pick it up again. With the online forms of communication, you can turn them off and be guaranteed some distraction free coding time.
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