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Leaked email from United Airlines CEO blames passenger for violent removal

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Re: Leaked email from United Airlines CEO blames passenger for violent removal

#81

Post by hedora »

mvdwoord wrote: post #13

I feel the current system of overbooking and how it is "regulated" is backwards, and airlines should rethink. Perhaps they could do some sort of an auction without a maximum. It is their problem after all, and a market mechanism seems a reasonable way to deal with this. Sometimes this would mean someone who does not care as much will gladly take $150 as compensation. Other cases might lead to much higher numbers. The…

I disagree about airplane / airport protests. First, air travel is increasingly a prerequisite to meaningful participation in the modern economy. That means it should be treated as a right, not a privilege.

Second, most of the encounters people have with institutionalized racism and arbitrary violations of civil rights involve air travel.

The unconstitutional "constitution-free" zones are exactly the place protests should occur. The current situation is akin to "blacks sit in back" of buses in the US. It is better in some ways better, and worse in others. The mix of victims skews to different socioeconomic groups (muslims, middle-lower class) than the old Jim Crow laws (and it is easier to avoid the airport than public roadways) but that doesn't make the current situation OK.

Anyway, history has decided Rosa Parks was a hero. I think it will eventually make the same call with respect to air travel.

Re: Leaked email from United Airlines CEO blames passenger for violent removal

#82

Post by mavelikara »

cube00 wrote: post #4

If they had just increased the compensation passengers would have voluntarily given up their seat, everyone has their price. It didn't even need to be money, free flights, upgrades, it costs them next to nothing, especially when you consider this is still running in the media days later. Everyone hates to hear they overbook flights so you'd think when they get bitten United would take some of the savings made overboo…

I believe this is capped at a maximum of $1300. From [1]:

    If it’s more than two hours (four hours for international
    flights), or if the airline does not offer alternate 
    flights, the compensation is 400 percent of your one-way 
    fare, with a $1300 maximum.
[1] http://www.cntraveler.com/stories/2014-09-04/bumped-due-to-o...

Re: Leaked email from United Airlines CEO blames passenger for violent removal

#83

Post by _fizz_buzz_ »

tsunamifury wrote: post #63
valuearb wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The plane couldn't leave until this person left. So there was a plane full of people who couldn't leave because of this jerk. And he wasn't abused. He was told to leave multiple times by airline crew as well as security. He refused every time and forced security to drag him out. Whereupon he accidentally hit his face on an arm rest. It's not abuse for profit. We all benefit from cheaper refundable fares from the over…

The plane absolutely could have left, entirely full of ticketed passengers. United held the plane to force this scenario -- since they wanted to replace ticketed paid passengers with their own staff to fly for free.

A pilot will not leave if they have a passenger on board who refuses to follow instructions by the crew. If you feel like you are treated unjustly (which might very well be the case here), take the fight off the plane.

Re: Leaked email from United Airlines CEO blames passenger for violent removal

#84

Post by aluminussoma »

benji-york wrote: post #58

I honestly don't understand the outrage. A person was legally required to do something he didn't want to do, he refused to relent and escalated the situation. The passenger is the only person I see as having done anything wrong here. I don't claim that there aren't better ways to handle the situation, but I also don't see any wrongdoing in how this shook out.

The legality of the request is in question. I assume you are referring to 49 U.S. Code § 46504 (link: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/49/46504). There are many people who can argue both sides of that law.

I personally think he did not violate that law and thus was not legally required to disembark.

Re: Leaked email from United Airlines CEO blames passenger for violent removal

#85

Post by cm2187 »

valuearb wrote: post #60
tyingq wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High speed rail would kill off a lot of shorter routes, but it just doesn't work in the US for some reason. When I was in the UK, I took the Virgin Rail from London to Manchester. The additional room and ability to walk around made it so much better than a flight. I would have paid more. The time difference was negligible once you count all the extra screening time for airports.

It doesn't work because it's crazy expensive to build tracks, and not cost effective unless you have massive density. Airlines are better, not just because planes are faster, but because of flexibility. You can find a space somewhere and build a new airport, or add a new runway to an existing airport and use less than one thousandth the land the rail line will require. The planes you fly to one destination can sudden…

It's not just about the comfort of seating in a train. It's about not having to queue for 1h at security, being abused by TLA officers, queue again, getting checked, queue again, getting checked, etc. Flying today feels like going to jail.

Re: Leaked email from United Airlines CEO blames passenger for violent removal

#86

Post by valuearb »

cm2187 wrote: post #53
scosman wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly! United overbooked as an optimization for profits, fine. However, they should have to pay up when it backfires. They gave up at $800 and just started forcing people off. If it's free market when I'm buying my ticket, it should be free market for United buying it back.

It's even worse than that. They were disembarking passengers to make room for their own staff who were not even planned on this trip.

You understand their staff needed to be on this flight so that another plane full of passengers in Louisville wouldn't be delayed by not having a flight crew?

Re: Leaked email from United Airlines CEO blames passenger for violent removal

#87

Post by protomyth »

devy wrote: post #77
protomyth wrote: post #57

Can someone explain how this was an "oversales" situation since the plane was actually fully booked and not over sold, and with that how United's action didn't violate the law. https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/part-250 https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/search/pagedetails.action?packageI...

It simply wasn't - until United's crew members came on board. And United put prioritize employees over its boarded customers (if there are going to bump passengers out, they should never issue boarding pass in the first place).

Reading the law, it seems very much like prioritizing employees over passengers is actually illegal.

Re: Leaked email from United Airlines CEO blames passenger for violent removal

#88

Post by BlackFly »

valuearb wrote: post #24
libc wrote: post #6

The fact that the airline technically didn't do anything illegal here really speaks to the lack of consumer protection laws in this country.

Airlines overbook because people don't show up for flights. Overbooking means airlines can offer passengers refundable tickets. Occasionally they get it wrong and have too many people show up. So they offer compensation to get people to voluntarily give up seats. If they can't get people to voluntarily give up seats they have the right to pick who to deny service to (but by law have to pay specific compensation to).…

The rules regarding overbooking are irrelevant as they can only be used to deny boarding. He was already boarded.

Re: Leaked email from United Airlines CEO blames passenger for violent removal

#90

Post by 3JPLW »

_wmd wrote: post #11

I think the video of this incident is frankly disgusting, but it's not clear without more context why the situation escalated to the degree it did. For example, UA fly another plane 3 hours 20 minutes later to the same destination (which is to say, a very reasonable and perfectly expectable delay in any situation involving air travel), why did the doc need to be on exactly that plane, and why did the UA staff also ha…

The replacement seat they were offering was a full day later. http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/11/travel/questions-united-trnd/
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