I think its interesting this has been completely removed from the front page
About half of the comments blame the victim!
A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off
391–400 of 549 posts
Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off
#392"The beatings will continue until morale improves."
(since no one else has said it yet)
Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off
#393Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think this is milquetoast logic. You acknowledge the airlines' mistakes, and then with exactly zero logic you shift the burden of consequence entirely to the victim. Shit airline policy, shit airline decision making prior to boarding to avoid an altercation, shit airline decision making after the boarding process by being too cheap to bribe literally anyone off the plane, shit airline decision to have a "random" pe…
Yes, choosing an action you know will directly result in a certain outcome makes you responsible for experiencing that outcome. Logic seems pretty simple to me
No, you can't expect the outcome is to be violently assaulted while doing no harm.
Only in a fascist state.
Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off
#394I think its interesting this has been completely removed from the front page
Likely because of the volume and rate of comments. There's a "overheated discussion detector" algorithm that can push down a story. There may be some user flags as well (though not enough to display the [flagged] tag), which can further lower it's ranking.
Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off
#395The real thing to fear here is the normalization of violence. Good perspective in the WP comments: "The truly shocking thing here is that violence - with the real possibility of serious injury - was viewed as appropriate in a situation that was purely logistical. The airline wanted seats for its own employees. This was not an emergency - such as a terrorist attack or a drunk passenger endangering people. The lack of…
I agree. I will point out that it is not United that "chose" violence. They asked the police to intervene. The state is supposed to have a monopoly on physical force, so they did. Now, for the police, violence has always been normal, or normalized. Consider the appropriate responses: 1. An airline should not call in the police when dealing with customers because they can reasonably expect violence. 2. The police shou…
The bigger issue is that police forces now think it's their job to protect corporations from people, instead of protecting the people.
This passenger violated no laws but the CPD willingly intervened as an agent of the corporation.
Guys with guns weren't required. United could have offered more compensation to volunteers or accommodated their crew on competing airlines.
In related news, we learn that Barclay's "received assistance from a US law enforcement agency" to unmask a whistleblower.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/04/10/whistleblowin...
Law enforcement have become lackeys of corporations, when their job should be to protect ordinary people from these abuses.
Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off
#396Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, choosing an action you know will directly result in a certain outcome makes you responsible for experiencing that outcome. Logic seems pretty simple to me
No, you can't expect the outcome is to be violently assaulted while doing no harm. Only in a fascist state.
In every single functioning state, you do what the police tell you or they use violence to coerce you. This is basically what defines the existence of a 'state', the alternative is anarchy.
Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off
#397Earlier quoted context omitted.
That makes them an unreliable partner to deal with. A ticket is not just a simple product, there are other deals depending on it. You may have a vacation booked, an important meeting, a funeral, or anything else. Missing your flight could mean missing a lot more than just the flight. The airline should take their agreements a lot more seriously than this.
And yet the thing people actually shop on is price.
Well, differentiating airlines is hard. To me, a for the most part non-traveler, they all offer pretty much the same product, quality-wise. Unless I was to up my ticket to some other class, every coach ticket is pretty much the same. So what am I supposed to differentiate on other than price?
Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off
#398Sure it was a dumb/unethical thing to do on behalf of the airline and should have been handled differently etc. I'm wondering why nobody is commenting on the absurd behavior of the passenger however - insisting on forcing police to physically drag him from the plane. Once it was decided and the guys in uniforms with guns show up, what sane person is honestly going to do that? The decision to remove the passenger we c…
There is the possibility that the passenger was not American or was not familiar with American police tactics or was not familiar with this "IDB". Not everyone is a frequent flyer. Who knew airlines in US can use force to throw out passengers just minding their own business? It's news to me.
Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off
#399Earlier quoted context omitted.
That technical definition should be explicitly stated on their contract, otherwise, it does not and would not hold up in any court of law. Ambiguity on contract clauses becomes the burden on those who wrote and enforces it, and that by itself is a concern because United cannot simply state that their supposed clause also magically enforces such other circumstances. They can definitely remove any person from a flight,…
The part of the CoC I read this morning (linked in another comment), after making the above comment, sounds like the rules for removing a passenger are independent of boarding.
Maybe you were referring to this:
2. Boarding Priorities - If a flight is Oversold, no one may be denied boarding against his/her will until UA or other carrier personnel first ask for volunteers who will give up their reservations WILLINGLY in exchange for compensation as determined by UA. If there are not enough volunteers, other Passengers may be denied boarding involuntarily in accordance with UA’s boarding priority:
+ Passengers who are Qualified Individuals with Disabilities, unaccompanied minors under the age of 18 years, or minors between the ages of 5 to 15 years who use the unaccompanied minor service, will be the last to be involuntarily denied boarding if it is determined by UA that such denial would constitute a hardship. + The priority of all other confirmed passengers may be determined based on a passenger’s fare class, itinerary, status of frequent flyer program membership, and the time in which the passenger presents him/herself for check-in without advanced seat assignment.
Some relevant points:
>> no one may be denied boarding against his/her will until UA or other carrier personnel first ask for volunteers who will give up their reservations WILLINGLY in exchange for compensation as determined by UA
>> If there are not enough volunteers, other Passengers may be denied boarding involuntarily in accordance with UA’s boarding priority
Note that after the phrase UA's boarding priority, it explicitly stated that: the time in which the passenger presents him/herself for check-in without advanced seat assignment. This is very clear that their IDB clause is solely focused on a person not yet physically inside the plane, with a seat allocated to him/her.
Again, contracts and clauses are always open to different (mis)interpretations and the bias goes down to which entity one would want it favorable to.
Update: Capitalized the word Willingly as it is implied in this contract.
Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off
#400Earlier quoted context omitted.
And yet the thing people actually shop on is price.
Well, differentiating airlines is hard. To me, a for the most part non-traveler, they all offer pretty much the same product, quality-wise. Unless I was to up my ticket to some other class, every coach ticket is pretty much the same. So what am I supposed to differentiate on other than price?
Sure, but part of the point is that it isn't an accident. Airlines are paying attention to what people respond to so instead of going out of their way to compete on quality or whatever other factors, they compete on price.