Militarization of our society. Airports are like warzones, with warzone like police and military and security process. Whenever there is a security issue at the airport or the plane, it's taken to the extreme. Where is the common sense in this case? Has the airliners lost their minds? If something like this happens again in the future, I hope other passengers would rise up and prevent security from doing this.
A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off
251–260 of 549 posts
Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off
#252Earlier quoted context omitted.
Raise the offer from $800, which is a low amount for an airline overbooking.
From what I've read. Passengers offered $1500 to leave but the employees scoffed at that. Not sure how true though.
"Yeah, we're not doing that. We're canceling your ticket. You're now trespassing." seems like the attitude taken here.
Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off
#253It has been mentioned a lot in the comments that United was correct as per their Contract of Carriage - Involuntary Deny Boarding.
But what's being missed here is that, the person who was dragged wasn't denied to board the plane in the first place. He was already seated, a seat number assigned to him, he is on the plane and by all means and precedents, he has already boarded. You cannot anymore deny boarding for someone whom you have already allowed passage inside the plane and seated. I assume this will be a feast day for the lawyers of the person removed forcibly, as they have all the angles working certainly in their favor.
Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off
#254Earlier quoted context omitted.
For some reason it looks a little bit off considering that he was already boarded and in his seat. I can understand the reasoning if it is executed at gate or check-in. It happened to me, and while frustrating, you comply. But if you have to take people off the aircraft, that looks like a last minute decision made by the airline to move staff. The best approach would have been to up the reward/incentive.
But if it was a last-minute thing, what happens to checked baggage, which may have already been loaded onto the plane by that point? Does this imply you're much more likely to get picked for last-minute eviction if you didn't check anything in?
No, they can re-route the baggage for you if you're going on another flight. If you're not flying they remove it (which can significantly delay takeoff causing a fine to the airline if their stats drop outside of standards).
I've flown on budget flights before that have a similar case where your checked lugagage is not necessarily on your flight to the destination but could be on a later one. Even much later. Very few guarantees before they actually start paying out for lost or delayed baggage.
They're also allowed to ship your baggage to you or hand deliver with a shipping courier.
Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off
#255Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think United were wrong here (maybe not legally) but morally and, even from their self-interest they took a major PR hit. People involved in this should be getting termination letters immediately. However, I am curious. Once they made the decision to remove him. How could they have done so if he didn't want to move? A taser?
Based on the circumstances (he wasn't a danger to anyone or acting out in any unreasonable way) the better choice probably would have been to just leave him be. He may not have had a legal "right" to be on the plane and United may have been within their rights to remove him but it can't have been worth the image hit to have him strongarmed off the plane. If they had given up on removing him and just picked someone el…
Did he not have a legal right? I thought the only reason they removed him was because the plane was overbooked and they wanted the seat for their own employees. Sounds like he had a valid ticket and every right to be on that plane. The airline should not have overbooked, and discovering that they had, they should have put their own employee on the next plane. Treating paying customers like this is inexcusable.
Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off
#256Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off
#257Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Their 'contract of carriage' allows them to IDB (Involuntary Deny Boarding) to passengers due to overselling, and bump people off at-will. But my understanding from the article is that the problem here was not overselling; they decided to give priority to moving their employees around over providing the contracted service to ticketed passengers. It's hard to see how that's justifiable even by the letter of the law.
If there's equipment waiting in Louisville, and another entire plane isn't going anywhere without them, that's how its justifiable. IDB means you can (legally) be physically removed from a flight. With that said, don't drag people off your flights. No matter what it costs you to get staff where they need to be when you make this mistake, it'll be cheaper than the negative publicity of a physical altercation removing…
Still doesn't make the original flight "oversold". That's a very specific term in airline travel relating to ticketed seats sold for a flight, not a United staffing fuckup.
Edited: for clarity.
Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off
#258Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think United were wrong here (maybe not legally) but morally and, even from their self-interest they took a major PR hit. People involved in this should be getting termination letters immediately. However, I am curious. Once they made the decision to remove him. How could they have done so if he didn't want to move? A taser?
Randomly selecting passengers is not a bright idea, specially after they boarded into the airplane and are already seated. Just offer more money until you find a real volunteer: even if you have to pay $10k that's going to be much better economically and morally than forcing a random client out of a plane.
Plus, there's no way it would get that high. Likely people were willing to be bought out, but wanted it to be "worth it". Fear of missing out would intervene very quickly, once the vouchers reached a certain point.
Even on a plane full of game theorists, willing to bid up to a million dollars, you're still probably miles away from the amount this will cost in negative PR, to say the least.
Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off
#259Sure it was a dumb/unethical thing to do on behalf of the airline and should have been handled differently etc. I'm wondering why nobody is commenting on the absurd behavior of the passenger however - insisting on forcing police to physically drag him from the plane. Once it was decided and the guys in uniforms with guns show up, what sane person is honestly going to do that? The decision to remove the passenger we can all rightly agree was wrong, but the graphic nature of how events unfolded at that point is really on the passenger.
Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off
#260Earlier quoted context omitted.
Legally - is this considered assault?
No. It's a federal crime to disobey instructions of the flight or the captain. If they ask you to leave the aircraft you're required to leave. If you refuse and need to be physically removed, tough. Not that I'm saying this makes United's behavior acceptable - I have no idea how they managed to load the plane before realizing they needed extra seats - just that the law is, in this case, on their side.
Are you referring to something other than FAR 91.3(a)? Because that pertains to the pilot in command being the final authority over aircraft operations. Removing a docile passenger who is merely violating the contract of carriage is not what that regulation has in mind.
This sounds to be like strictly a contract of carriage violation by the passenger, it is a civil matter, not criminal. I think the airline can't physically coerce the passenger individually once they're in the plane. They can remove his luggage and just wait until that passenger, or some other passenger, complies. But physically removing someone not engaged in criminal activity itself becomes assault.