A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off • Hacker News Board

Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off

#81

Post by whitepoplar » Mon, Apr 10, 2017, 4:58 PM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #48

whitepoplar wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're wrong. They should have upped their monetary incentive until someone left voluntarily. It was their business fuckup, not the passenger's, and they should pay for it.

Yeah, the mistake was United's. But the passenger also acted unreasonably. If you act like a two-year-old - even in a situation that, initially, totally isn't your fault - then you may get treated like a two-year-old. And if you act like a two-year-old after the cops start telling you to leave, they're typically going to make you leave - using whatever level of force is required to do so. So, yes, the initial fault i…

I don't think the passenger acted unreasonably. It's human nature to tell someone to "fuck off" when treated unethically, and it's fine to do so.

Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off

#82

Post by passivepinetree » Mon, Apr 10, 2017, 4:58 PM UTC

mnm1 wrote: post #51

problems wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like it wasn't the normal overbooking procedure - it was overfull because of united employees.

Then they should have figured that out before boarding everyone. This is a colossal fuckup. The airline assaulted its own customers beating them till they had to be carried out on a stretcher. And yet people still defend them.

Obviously United was in the wrong here, but you might be going a little far. The main purpose of the stretcher might have been for restraining the man.

It's wise to avoid making such inflammatory statements until we know more.

Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off

#83

Post by lotyrin » Mon, Apr 10, 2017, 4:58 PM UTC

vogt wrote: post #57

josefresco wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The responsible action, is for the business to accept the overbooking as their fault, and arrange alternative traveling plans for their employees. Forcibly removing a customer due to overbooking should never happen, and a customer should be able to refuse. His actions while extreme to some, were reasonable IMHO.

On this note, can someone ELI5 overbooking? Why is it so hard for these companies to just not overbook? Genuinely asking.

No-shows. If you book at 100% you fly < 100% and that costs money.

Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off

#84

Post by maxerickson » Mon, Apr 10, 2017, 4:58 PM UTC

adekok wrote: post #2

Legalities and contracts aside, I don't see why an airline would allow someone to board, and then remove them. That just can't end well.

Maybe the excess boarding arose from some kind of unanticipated situation or oversight, a "mistake" if you will.

Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off

#85

Post by doktrin » Mon, Apr 10, 2017, 4:58 PM UTC

rhino369 wrote: post #8

The outrage mob is pushing this pretty hard. Booting people off a plane is pretty shitty behavior for an airline. It's bad customer service and they should dealt with it earlier than after boarding. But if they have to do it, the passenger shouldn't be allowed to just refuse. This guy did. And he had to get dragged off the plane. I don't really see an alternative other than just letting anyone willing to scream to st…

> if they have to do it

They wanted to get an airline crew to another city. Sounds like United fucked up, overbooked a flight, and didn't want to :

    1. escalate compensation for passengers to get off the plane
    2. arrange alternate transportation for their crew

This was a business decision. They didn't "have to" do shit, and certainly didn't "have to" call in the bouncers to forcibly eject a paying customer who was already in their seat.

Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off

#86

Post by MattSteelblade » Mon, Apr 10, 2017, 4:58 PM UTC

vogt wrote: post #57

josefresco wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The responsible action, is for the business to accept the overbooking as their fault, and arrange alternative traveling plans for their employees. Forcibly removing a customer due to overbooking should never happen, and a customer should be able to refuse. His actions while extreme to some, were reasonable IMHO.

On this note, can someone ELI5 overbooking? Why is it so hard for these companies to just not overbook? Genuinely asking.

Simple. They overbook on purpose. There is usually a percentage of people that miss a flight, so airlines overbook to account for this trying to get every seat filled.

Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off

#87

Post by aaln » Mon, Apr 10, 2017, 4:58 PM UTC

smdz wrote: post #67

Law is intended to, at a fundamental level, reflect and enforce the moral and ethical standards of a civilised society. But when law becomes a reason to induce immoral and/or unethical (but legal) behavior - the civilization collapses. Good luck to us all!

"An unjust law is no law at all"

Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off

#88

Post by John23832 » Mon, Apr 10, 2017, 4:59 PM UTC

Flammy wrote: post #54

bello wrote: post #21

They messed up and overbooked the flight, sure. But why on earth would they forcefully drag people out of the plane, while they could just find volunteers? They could offer cash/miles to whoever volunteered, increasing the offer until someone accepted. I've seen other airlines do this on several occasions. They couldn't have handled it worse than they did.

> They messed up and overbooked the flight, sure. To be clear, every flight is overbooked. The airlines have run the numbers, and it is clearly more profitable to sell (for example) 105% of the plane, and then if more than 100% show up, pay people off to take a different flight.

> The airlines have run the numbers, and it is clearly more profitable to sell (for example) 105% of the plane, and then if more than 100% show up, pay people off to take a different flight.

I guess the op's question is, why was it not done here?

(Sadly) Everyone has a price for everything. Obviously that guy's price was not met. As you say, the airline has done the math... does their math include the cost of dragging a passenger bruised and bleeding off of their plane? Probably... Does it include the cost of cameras capturing the whole thing? Probably not.

Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off

#89

Post by eximius » Mon, Apr 10, 2017, 4:59 PM UTC

pfortuny wrote: post #23

The fact is that you agree to lots of things when boarding a plane (buying a ticket). Not knowing the law is not an excuse. So... It is annoying and terrible but it is ehat it is.

It is not possible to know the full body of law and read every ToS for every interaction. That is a terribly cynical attitude.

Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off

#90

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Apr 10, 2017, 4:59 PM UTC

Flammy wrote: post #54

bello wrote: post #21

They messed up and overbooked the flight, sure. But why on earth would they forcefully drag people out of the plane, while they could just find volunteers? They could offer cash/miles to whoever volunteered, increasing the offer until someone accepted. I've seen other airlines do this on several occasions. They couldn't have handled it worse than they did.

> They messed up and overbooked the flight, sure. To be clear, every flight is overbooked. The airlines have run the numbers, and it is clearly more profitable to sell (for example) 105% of the plane, and then if more than 100% show up, pay people off to take a different flight.

[deleted]