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What is this colored fiber in my chicken?

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Re: What is this colored fiber in my chicken?

#131

Post by mirimir »

vukk wrote: post #121
mirimir wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I know. But consider that bleeding to death is also considered to be relatively painless, as a suicide method.

Warning: descriptions of suicide. I feel like this argument collapses when given any serious thought. Mainly because even without experiencing either, I'd consider drawing a warm bath and cutting your own wrists a very different experience compared to hanging upside down and somebody else cutting your throat.

Point taken.

I've never cut my wrists, but I have experienced substantial rapid blood loss. The injury itself wasn't at all painful, in the moment. Not until much later, waiting to heal. And the experience was actually rather peaceful, rather like methaqualone or diazepam. Except for the freakout about stopping the bleeding, anyway.

It's my understanding that proper kosher/halal slaughter is supposed to be non-traumatic. Because trauma makes the meat taste bad.

Re: What is this colored fiber in my chicken?

#132

Post by throwanem »

kranner wrote: post #116
ryanmarsh wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the biologic incentive for a homo sapien to give up 100% of all animal based foods based upon the pain and suffering of some animals used for food?

Avoiding guilt (if one feels it for being non-vegetarian) feels like it should count towards biological incentive; assuming the guilt felt is significant enough to cause stress, etc.

That's a pretty weak incentive. Even among people who actually choose to experience it, it's far too recent to have exerted any meaningful selection pressure on a species with generation intervals measured in decades - especially given the correlations between the kind of guilty vegetarianism you describe and Western affluence, and between Western affluence and reduced reproductive rate.

Re: What is this colored fiber in my chicken?

#133

Post by parenthephobia »

bananicorn wrote: post #57
np422 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of us here on hacker news can afford to buy real food such as grass feed beef/lamb, forage egg/chicken, etc Seems like a more natural evolutionary correct way to get our food rather than some kind of franken-meat grown i lab. Every autumn I buy a lamb from the farmer living next to my father, I kind of like it when I can watch my food being happy before I eat it.

I'd really like to understand these statements - You seem to care about the well-being of the animal while it is alive, but then decide to kill it (or let it be killed) for its meat. What's the point? You understand that this animal is happy and thus does not want to be killed, but you value it being happy. Don't these two sentiments exclude each other?

> this animal is happy and thus does not want to be killed

You're assuming this as a premise, which I think may be the root of the problem. Plenty of people don't believe that livestock is intelligent enough to comprehend the idea of death, or really anticipate the future in general. How then would it have a desire about future events?

> Don't these two sentiments exclude each other?

Wanting something to be happy whilst not respecting its autonomy is common amongst humans, so I'd say no. Additionally, killing an animal humanely doesn't cause it to be unhappy, since dead animals are incapable of experiencing emotional states.

Re: What is this colored fiber in my chicken?

#134

Post by beaconstudios »

screwt wrote: post #88
beaconstudios wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the move to free-range farming has helped a lot to improve the situation. The majority of shops near me stock primarily free-range eggs and chicken due to consumer demand.

Be aware that 'free range' and ('organic', FWIW) are close to meaningless in terms of animal welfare. Both give a set of definitions for what meets the label, which is then achieved by farmers by the most cost-effective means possible. E.g. 1 - 'free range' chickens have almost no extra space per chicken compared to battery-farmed chickens, and many die after being trampled by the others. They are at least a breed wh…

I think that depends on the country you're in - AFAIK the UK has quite good standards for products bearing the "free-range" or "organic" labels. The UK has also seen a wholesale consumer rejection of battery farming and a lot of shops now stock free-range eggs and meat by default.

Re: What is this colored fiber in my chicken?

#135

Post by Luc »

omginternets wrote: post #114
Luc wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I kind of like it when I can watch my food being happy before I eat it. There's an inkling of empathy there, I suppose. It's a start.

Yes, surprising though it may be to the vegan crowd, we meat-eaters are not heartless bastards. We just disagree with you on the question of whether veganism is the answer to a very real problem.

I think you are wrong in the detail of your statements, but anyway, I am not vegan.

Re: What is this colored fiber in my chicken?

#136

Post by parenthephobia »

adaml_623 wrote: post #90
pvaldes wrote: post #71

This is not a problem caused by antibiotics. Is a problem of genetic nature that happens because broilers are inbreed for growing big and fast. The same birds in true range with plenty of food would face exactly the same problem, with or without antibiotics. They are too heavy and often tend to have cardiac diseases, but they live short lives and are delicious so they are the most sucessful bird in the planet. On the…

"the most successful bird on the planet" is an interesting line considering that they are all killed and eaten. I guess the obvious line of reasoning is to talk about how GDP is less than perfect for measuring economic success, etc. Sometimes large numbers are not a sign of success.

Almost all birds are killed and eaten. Birds in the wild don't die peacefully in their sleep. The real difference is what happens before they die.

Re: What is this colored fiber in my chicken?

#137

Post by ska »

enraged_camel wrote: post #24
Larrikin wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America is the only country I've ever been to where white meat cost more than dark meat. For me it was an early lesson I learned in cooking, thinking I was improving a recipe by using breast when a recipe called for thigh simply because skinless boneless breast was more expensive.

>>America is the only country I've ever been to where white meat cost more than dark meat This is because legs and thighs are fatty, and Americans have come to associate animal fat with health problems. White meat is leaner, and is therefore perceived to be healthier and more expensive.

It's a great example of the power of marketing.

Re: What is this colored fiber in my chicken?

#138

Post by Slaul »

Hexcles wrote: post #118

Animal welfare aside, I find people in North America really in favour of chicken breast, much more than other parts, say chicken thigh. Yet I myself think chicken thigh tastes much better, especially with the skin (yet again it is usually skinless in supermarkets here, unfortunately). Is it because of nutrition (percentage of fat/protein etc.)? On top of that, chicken feet are considered unacceptable by many...

I personally do not enjoy fatty meats. I much prefer the leaner breast meat over the fatty dark meat. Partly a texture thing for me.

Re: What is this colored fiber in my chicken?

#139

Post by meddlepal »

Hexcles wrote: post #118

Animal welfare aside, I find people in North America really in favour of chicken breast, much more than other parts, say chicken thigh. Yet I myself think chicken thigh tastes much better, especially with the skin (yet again it is usually skinless in supermarkets here, unfortunately). Is it because of nutrition (percentage of fat/protein etc.)? On top of that, chicken feet are considered unacceptable by many...

I strongly prefer chicken and turkey breast because it's easy to deal with because it does not have bones or cartilage. When it's cooked it usually doesn't have any weird colors and the taste is relatively boring but consistent.

Thighs, wings, drumsticks etc all have problems I just don't want to deal with as an eater.

Re: What is this colored fiber in my chicken?

#140

Post by kranner »

throwanem wrote: post #132
kranner wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Avoiding guilt (if one feels it for being non-vegetarian) feels like it should count towards biological incentive; assuming the guilt felt is significant enough to cause stress, etc.

That's a pretty weak incentive. Even among people who actually choose to experience it, it's far too recent to have exerted any meaningful selection pressure on a species with generation intervals measured in decades - especially given the correlations between the kind of guilty vegetarianism you describe and Western affluence, and between Western affluence and reduced reproductive rate.

I'm talking about personal impact on a single human being's biological well-being. GP framed their question as being for "a homo sapien".
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