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How do you make programmers work 60-80 hours per week?

brianknapp.me

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Re: How do you make programmers work 60-80 hours per week?

#111
post #11

I seem to be alone in this, but I actually do about 25-30 hours of actual programming work each week. And that's sit-down-and-concentrate-and-build-shit work. I'm pretty ruthless about declining extraneous meetings and I keep my door closed most of the time. I think it's reasonable to have 25% of a 40-hour week be for meetings, helping other people, eating lunch, sitting in on interviews, and learning/trying out new…

You have a door: there's your 50% productivity boost.

Re: How do you make programmers work 60-80 hours per week?

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In India, most of the students get a bachelors degree without any loan. No one in India becomes homeless in a week if he loses his job. This loan and debt thing is really messed up in the US.

In India slightly over a quarter of the population are illiterate. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_India The World Bank, in 2011 based on 2005's PPPs International Comparison Program, estimated 23.6% of Indian population, or about 276 million people, lived below $1.25 per day on purchasing power parity. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_India

> In India slightly over a quarter of the population are illiterate.

Most of them still aren't homeless. They somehow have a house to live in. Most illiterates still don't go for a loan to educate their kids, they try to educate with hard cash although they do not get very good education but loans are a big no no(mostly)

Re: How do you make programmers work 60-80 hours per week?

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In India, most of the students get a bachelors degree without any loan. No one in India becomes homeless in a week if he loses his job. This loan and debt thing is really messed up in the US.

In India slightly over a quarter of the population are illiterate. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_India The World Bank, in 2011 based on 2005's PPPs International Comparison Program, estimated 23.6% of Indian population, or about 276 million people, lived below $1.25 per day on purchasing power parity. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_India

What's your point? They are talking specifically about students a.k.a people who are literate and have a degree. How's citing literacy or poverty statistics relevant?

Re: How do you make programmers work 60-80 hours per week?

#115
post #74

Answer: Be in America where employees are close to slaves, and people are scared of losing their job, so you can force them to do these kinds of atrocious things. My brother lived and worked in North America for 7 years before returning to Australia. He'd been in Australia for a few months when I asked what the biggest change was. He didn't say no snow, he didn't say driving on the wrong side of the road, food or att…

I think (another) root cause of the problem is the education system in America. People go to great lengths (i.e. playing "slave" in High School) to get into great colleges which are often privately funded. This means that high performers go to good colleges and some of them score big and give back to their alma mater which reinforces the school with money so they can hire better people etc etc. Disclaimer: European a…

That is a bit simplistic. The social pressures to get into a great college have increased greatly from when I went to high school (and I was in a good school district, most in America are horrible or substandard). But the fundamental purpose of American education - to socialize kids into cannon fodder for the Industrial Revolution - has always been the driving force behind educational practices in America. Read up on the works of John Taylor Gatto [0] if you want a critical analysis of the American educational system.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Taylor_Gatto

Re: How do you make programmers work 60-80 hours per week?

#116
post #109
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody outside of NA are scared of loosing their jobs, is what you believe, because of how enslaved to the system Americans are? Households in Sweden take on heavy debt. If we loose our jobs here some of us fall back for a while on a (voluntary) system which from an angle looks like a basic income but that cover only a fraction of that household's mortage, enslaving us to a system in the same way Americans may seem e…

> Nobody outside of NA are scared of loosing their jobs, is what you believe, because of how enslaved to the system Americans are? I didn't say nobody , and I didn't say everywhere outside America. Don't exaggerate what I said. I used an example that Australia Vs. America is a vast difference. In my experience (and that of my brother), Americans not having maternity leave, sick leave, decent holidays etc. and having…

>Don't exaggerate what I said

Alright then.

>When one does lose their job in Sweden, what happens when you break your leg next week? or get cancer?

Care for children is always for free in all clinics except private ones. Care for the rest of us cost 30 EUR, no matter if you have a job or not. There is an upper roof of how much your yearly medical bill is. This roof stays the same if you have a job or not. I have it that roof a couple of times but never for acctual medicine bills, so I don't know exactly how it works for medicine, but doctor bills, the upper roof is 10 doctor visits for 30 EUR then a year of no doctor bills.

Many have extra insurance to conver for events where you loose your ability to work.

>How much student debt to those in Sweden incur for a 4 years bachelor degree?

One part of the debt you take on you never pay back. That part is like a carte blanche check that students get to spend on whatever education they like, at University level. Second part is a loan. Some work part-time while at University and others hit the roof which would be something like 17 semesters and 17*2000=34K EUR. Then you start paying that back as soon as you take on your first job but never over ~1% of your income.

>How many weeks of leave does Sweden mandate by law from full-time work?

5 weeks. Many have 6 weeks. You can get those in money instead of as vacation. 4 weeks is around a months pay.

>How about maternity leave and sick leave?

Everyone have sickleave. First day: no money for you, poor sick fellow. Next day its around 70% of your pay. If you are chronically ill a special incurance takes care of you, puts you in early retirement.

All mothers: around 300 days of leave per child. You get goverment money during those days. All fathers: minimum is 3 months I think? They can also use some of the mother's days.

Re: How do you make programmers work 60-80 hours per week?

#117
post #111
post #11

I seem to be alone in this, but I actually do about 25-30 hours of actual programming work each week. And that's sit-down-and-concentrate-and-build-shit work. I'm pretty ruthless about declining extraneous meetings and I keep my door closed most of the time. I think it's reasonable to have 25% of a 40-hour week be for meetings, helping other people, eating lunch, sitting in on interviews, and learning/trying out new…

You have a door: there's your 50% productivity boost.

Not with this hype for open office space you don't! ;)

Re: How do you make programmers work 60-80 hours per week?

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in Stockholm, Sweden and used to live there until a few years ago. There are plenty of homeless people in Stockholm nowadays. There's one outside almost every grocery store in the city center. For comparison, I'm currently living in Taipei, and I can count the number of homeless people I have seen in the last few months on one hand. They probably exists but they are definitely not visibly present. As to the…

Are the homeless in Stockholm Swedish or Roma? EDIT > EDIT: Almost all the homeless people you see in Stockholm are Romani people. They are one of the five officially recognized national minorities in Sweden, along with Jews, Sami, Sweden Finns and Tornedalers ... Please refer to my post below replying to this same assertion from another poster.

Those are not mutually exclusive options: there are plenty of Roma who have been in Scandinavia for centuries.

Re: How do you make programmers work 60-80 hours per week?

#119
post #42
post #11

I seem to be alone in this, but I actually do about 25-30 hours of actual programming work each week. And that's sit-down-and-concentrate-and-build-shit work. I'm pretty ruthless about declining extraneous meetings and I keep my door closed most of the time. I think it's reasonable to have 25% of a 40-hour week be for meetings, helping other people, eating lunch, sitting in on interviews, and learning/trying out new…

You're not alone. I, and everyone at work except perhaps our CEO, get probably 30 hours of focused programming done, with the caveat that probably around 75% of that programming is done in pairs. Which still feels like very productive programming most of the time. We do this by using the pomodoro technique and TDD (although I'm sure there are lots of other ways, and that it's mostly a combination of company philosoph…

What kind of business are you in that the entire company except the CEO is programmin full time?

Re: How do you make programmers work 60-80 hours per week?

#120
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is 'they' in that case? They for me is whoever is paying us to help them with their business. If it's the contractors/team members then no. Ive unfortunately had several highly paid (4 figures uk/day) contractors who think themselves above certain tasks, or who refuse to do anything they didn't agree with who seem surprised when they get told to fuck off. You're an overpaid contract dev and you're refusing to imp…

I downvoted you for arrogance. You obviously think your are better than those you "manage." Are you technical? Can you sling assembly? Ok, what about C? C++ maybe? I'm guessing you can't do any of that. Can you back up your talk?

Sounds like a good boss to me, and I know good bosses. Sounds like he doesn't have a lot of time for the kind of prima donna architecture astronaut who can't convince anyone else on a team that he's worth listening to but wants everything done his way anyway. Shall I tell you what you sound like right now?
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