New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary • Hacker News Board

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#411

Post by taurath » Fri, Apr 07, 2017, 8:43 PM UTC

Overtonwindow wrote: post #286

louisswiss wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree with you in principle (your previous deal with company A is absolutely none of company B's business) but I would like to challenge you on one point: > I'm placed at a disadvantage in negotiations if I name a number first. ... This is unlikely to be true. Generally, in price negotiations it is advantageous to name a number first. This is known as anchoring and basically the theory is that the end result is bette…

Anchoring fails because let's say the position is wanting to hire someone at $70k and you state an expected salary of $75 - 80k, negotiable. That employer may decide it's not worth their time because you'll want too much, so why bother with even calling you in for an interview. Asking for a salary number from applicants up front is not just a way to undercut them, but it's a way to quickly weed out and only interview…

They get the talent and experience they are willing to pay for, and deal with the recidivism rate that paying under market gets you.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#412

Post by komali2 » Fri, Apr 07, 2017, 8:46 PM UTC

showmethemoney wrote: post #396

komali2 wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not bad man, although I have to wonder what you'd have made if you never gave your number ;) Luckily they gave 3 numbers first, so you avoided a trap many people fall into on both sides of the table - not negotiating at all. Imagine the first thing a company says after an interview is "what's your number" and you shrug and say "100," and the company reps blink and go "no problem," then pass you an offer. Wouldn't you…

I thought I was throwing out a crazy number. They agreed so quickly that I had no idea what to do. It's interesting to see whether people's first reaction is "that's amazing" or "you messed up." I felt both. I still wonder how high I could have gone.

Well, you could've gone higher. Oh well! Next time.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#413

Post by dikdik » Fri, Apr 07, 2017, 8:49 PM UTC

crazy1van wrote: post #373

Laws like this one that restrict businesses from asking questions that individuals could ask strikes me as very strange. I could ask my buddy how much he made at his last job. I couldn't ask my buddy how much he made at his last job if I'm considering hiring him to work at my company. Why is this information legal to acquire when I'm wearing my business hat vs when I'm wearing my friend hat?

Do you plan to have children in the near future? Are you currently pregnant? Do you prefer men or women as romantic/sexual partners? How old are you? What religion were you raised with? Do you currently attend a church?

>Why is this information legal to acquire when I'm wearing my business hat vs when I'm wearing my friend hat? You tell me....

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#414

Post by switch007 » Fri, Apr 07, 2017, 8:52 PM UTC

OJFord wrote: post #331

pmoriarty wrote: post #43

I never answer questions about my past or expected salary, not to employers and not to recruiters. Most employers don't ask, and the few that have (perhaps by having a part of an employment form ask for previous salary) have never made my leaving that information out an issue. Most recruiters, if they even ask, respect my decision not to talk about it, but I've been pressed hard on this by a handful of recruiters, an…

> Most employers don't ask In the UK, they don't need to. > It's great that NYC is taking the lead on this, and I really hope the rest of the US follows suit. There's a lot of positive remarks in this thread, that I don't really understand. I see the advantage if your current salary is unusually low, but it cuts both ways: without knowledge of the company, (and within an industry) salary contains more information tha…

> In the UK, they don't need to.

Yeah they just phone your reference and ask. Sigh.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#415

Post by davemel37 » Fri, Apr 07, 2017, 8:55 PM UTC

hamandcheese wrote: post #263

davemel37 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time I ever tried this, the candidates hover around the top of the range regardless of qualification and experience.

Maybe try posting a minimum salary only? "Roles for this position start at $x for qualified candidates, negotiable based on experience" or something like that.

Interesting idea

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#416

Post by switch007 » Fri, Apr 07, 2017, 8:56 PM UTC

eric_the_read wrote: post #16

dajohnson89 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is, recruiters/hiring managers will sometimes call your former employer to verify your actual salary.

Do any employers actually provide that information? The most I've ever had any previous employer ever say about my time there is, "Eric worked here from $start_date to $end_date." I understand there to be liability involved if they say anything more.

I've had a reference disclose my salary (UK)

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#417

Post by kafkaesq » Fri, Apr 07, 2017, 8:56 PM UTC

mcv wrote: post #404

pmoriarty wrote: post #43

I never answer questions about my past or expected salary, not to employers and not to recruiters. Most employers don't ask, and the few that have (perhaps by having a part of an employment form ask for previous salary) have never made my leaving that information out an issue. Most recruiters, if they even ask, respect my decision not to talk about it, but I've been pressed hard on this by a handful of recruiters, an…

As a freelancer, I'm fairly up-front about my hourly rate. If they want to pay it, I'm happy. If they don't, that's fine too. If there are other interesting aspects about the project that make up for the lower pay, we can negotiate. But it saves me time not having to talk to clients who can't afford me. But freelancing is a different market than salaried employment. I think for salaried positions it's up to the emplo…

As a freelancer, I'm fairly up-front about my hourly rate.

The law doesn't address your expected or preferred rate (for your next gig); but rather, about disclosing your past rates. Which is a huge difference.

(Actually, the rule applies to employment negotiations only, and has no effect on freelance discussions, per se. However, it seems it may give significant moral support to those on the freelance side who are, frankly, pretty tired of this pesky sales tactic).

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#418

Post by rhizome » Fri, Apr 07, 2017, 8:56 PM UTC

vidarh wrote: post #102

alistairSH wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The parent is discussing prior salaries. You are discussing requested salaries. If specifically asked "What is your current salary?" you would typically respond with the actual current salary, not your ideal new salary.

In this case the prior salary is used for anchoring purposes, by the expectation that the new salary should not be too much higher than the old salary. They're basically using it as a means to sanity check and calibrate their own assessment.

by the expectation that the new salary should not be too much higher than the old salary

From where does this expectation derive, and what makes it a good barometer of sanity? On the face it just sounds like the same rationale used for basing raises on percentage of an employee's initial salary. "3% over your last job" is not fair.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#419

Post by clavalle » Fri, Apr 07, 2017, 8:57 PM UTC

Sorreah wrote: post #408

clavalle wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fully agree. At the time my assumption was that candidates had a pretty good idea what a 'normal' salary range is for a position. I was wrong.

And my experience is that never, ever, has a potential employer expressed a "pretty good idea" about what a "normal" salary for a position is.

That's a bit strange.

It's like buying milk. I couldn't tell you exactly how much I could buy a gallon of milk for right now (without looking it up). But I could tell you that it is for around five or six dollars. I could also tell you that organic milk is a bit more and the store brand is a bit less. I could also tell you it is likely to be a bit more in a small, boutique store than a large chain store and cost a bit more in the middle of NYC or SF than it would cost in the outskirts of St. Louis.

In short, I know enough about the cost of milk that if it is priced at $16 a gallon or $1.50 a gallon that it is unusual and, despite not knowing the exact 'normal' cost of a gallon of milk, that I can assume I can walk away and get some somewhere else in the market for a 'normal' price.

I think most people are in my shoes when it comes to milk and I think most employers in tech have a pretty good idea what a normal salary for a position is, especially those who have written checks for those positions for a while.

If you are finding that is not the case, I would wonder why.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#420

Post by davemel37 » Fri, Apr 07, 2017, 8:59 PM UTC

jjnoakes wrote: post #202

davemel37 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time I ever tried this, the candidates hover around the top of the range regardless of qualification and experience.

Which is fine; if you can argue that their experience may not merit top of the range, you just negotiate down a bit...

This might just be me and my own immaturity, but in my experience, employees often count their eggs before they hatch, and once I start negotiating them down, I create a scenario where I can't get them fully aligned with my goals. They become a simple exchange of cash for labor and not someone who grows loyal or feels a sense of fairness, ownership and excitement about the role.

Maybe I am naive, but I feel like this creates a dynamic that hurts otherwise promising prospects.