New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary • Hacker News Board

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#241

Post by baddox » Fri, Apr 07, 2017, 5:01 PM UTC

jnwatson wrote: post #136

jimparkins wrote: post #20

Have a google for: "can i lie to a employer about past salary" - it really really messes with people - people feel super uncertain about how to approach this situation. Throwing any confidence they have during the negotiation out the window. Even now I hesitate to write this as a million people will come out and say never lie - what if they found out. More than banning. There needs to be acceptance that if someone as…

Interesting. An additional argument for lying is that you're probably already lying in other parts of the interview. Why do you want to work here? (money, and the desire to pay the bills and feed my children) Where do you see yourself in 5 years? (probably not at this company) What is your biggest weakness? (not like I would actually tell a stranger a real answer)

I don't think I lie to interviewers. Sure, I don't interpret "why do you want to work here?" as a broad inquiry into my decision to sell my labor, but I think the salary requirement is generally well understood by both parties.

I've always answered "where do you see yourself in x years" and "what is your biggest weakness" as honestly as possible.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#242

Post by solotronics » Fri, Apr 07, 2017, 5:02 PM UTC

j2bax wrote: post #193

krenden9 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally lie any time a recruiter asks for my current/past salary. How much I lie depends on what I think I should be getting for the role, and how likely it is that they can and will confirm the numbers I gave. At my most recent past job, I was working for some guys at a small startup for next to nothing in salary (~$40k). I had a 10% stake in equity, but it was worth nothing, since the company was in debt. When I…

I hope I never hire someone like you by accident. I have a feeling it wouldn't take long until this outlook would lead to other problems in the workplace that would have you on to your next con.

Employers should not be asking previous salary anyways. Its the same tactics aggressive car salesmen use. People should be paid what they are worth and this is a tactic to maximize corporate profit at the COST of individual suffering.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#243

Post by emh68 » Fri, Apr 07, 2017, 5:02 PM UTC

zimzam wrote: post #119

jimparkins wrote: post #20

Have a google for: "can i lie to a employer about past salary" - it really really messes with people - people feel super uncertain about how to approach this situation. Throwing any confidence they have during the negotiation out the window. Even now I hesitate to write this as a million people will come out and say never lie - what if they found out. More than banning. There needs to be acceptance that if someone as…

Unfortunately there are employers in NYC who do call previous employers to verify salary. Remember that most white-collar employees are in much less demand than developers and have to deal with far more employer bullshit.

Before you're hired? If I found out that a prospective employer was calling my current employer, I would decline to continue interviewing and tell them exactly why.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#244

Post by pm90 » Fri, Apr 07, 2017, 5:02 PM UTC

collyw wrote: post #236

pm90 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I never consider interviewing and negotiations a waste of time. It's very valuable practice, no matter what the outcome. Practice is how I get better at both. The more interviews I go on and the more times I negotiate salary, the better I get. This. I get the impression that most software devs don't make an effort to learn this incredibly valuable skill. It doesn't even have to be haggling, per se. Just asking for…

Whenever I have done that its been a "we can't right now" for such and such reason, have some extra responsibilities instead and make it feel like a promotion. It been easier to get another job with more pay.

Well, to be clear, I wasn't talking about promotions, but negotiating a new job offer. That is the time when you as an employee have the most leverage.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#245

Post by idunno246 » Fri, Apr 07, 2017, 5:03 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #203

tehlike wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in tech companies, bonus + equity is usually multiples of the base salary.

1. Parent post was just for illustration, he's probably not talking about his actual salary + equity. 2. Is that really true? Multiples? Maybe for the CEO! I've been in tech for almost 2 decades and have never seen an equity package of more than ~25% or so of base salary. Usually it's about 5-10%, no?

I have more than 25% at a public company at the initial offer, but not multiples.

However, I left a company that wasnt liquid which was multiples in equity. But once you risk-adjust it for ever being worth something...

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#246

Post by TheCoelacanth » Fri, Apr 07, 2017, 5:04 PM UTC

retube wrote: post #170

This will be tricky for banks and hedge funds etc. These firms typically, in London at any rate: - never quote a salary (or even a range) for a job opening - following many interviews any offer is always based on prior "comp", of which you will have to provide 3 years of info (base, bonus, deferred awards, retention awards, benefits etc) plus, of course, documentary evidence to support. HR departments start squealing…

Not sure how it's tricky for them. They just have to stop doing it or never hire anyone.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#247

Post by catshirt » Fri, Apr 07, 2017, 5:05 PM UTC

showmethemoney wrote: post #200

Once upon a time I interviewed for a role in NYC. An employee that I spoke to said they paid pretty well, and I could expect about 120. The HR person wanted my previous salary, and I refused. Eventually they said their range was 130-150. I said it wasn't gonna work cause I was looking for something more like 220. They said okay we can do that no problem. My previous salary was 110.

care to share your position and some discreet information about the company (size, industry?)

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#248

Post by solotronics » Fri, Apr 07, 2017, 5:05 PM UTC

paulcole wrote: post #4

Good. Not enough people realize the best way to answer this question is with a straight-up lie.

a good way to find out is call your previous employers saying you are a recruiter for "Big Company X" and see if they divulge your previous salary. I would bet most (all?) would not.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#249

Post by baddox » Fri, Apr 07, 2017, 5:05 PM UTC

richrichardsson wrote: post #174

zimzam wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately there are employers in NYC who do call previous employers to verify salary. Remember that most white-collar employees are in much less demand than developers and have to deal with far more employer bullshit.

How can it be legal for an employer to disclose a specific employees salary to a third party?

It would be odd if that were illegal. There are some well-known "radical transparency" startups that publicly post all employees' salaries.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#250

Post by anigbrowl » Fri, Apr 07, 2017, 5:07 PM UTC

lend000 wrote: post #184

There's a case to be made for an employee protection preventing an employer from firing an employee for refusing to produce pay stubs from a past employer. However, I've said it before -- preventing a question from being asked is state overreach and constitutes a violation of the first amendment, in my opinion.

How is it state overreach but employers aren't engaged in corporate overreach? The state is not there to look after only the interests of the employed, but also of the employees. You don't have a right to know that information, and as an employer you potentially exert significant economic leverage over the potential employee, so the question has great potential to be coercive. It's none of your business how much a potential employee earned in their previous employ. Your only reason for asking is to improve your own negotiating position by making it easier to guess what the employee will settle for.

The only question you should be asking the employee about pay is how much they want in exchange for what you want them to do. As for your first amendment argument, that's total nonsense. You are not engaged in speech to promote your views, nor are you being prevented from expressing your views in any way. If this should be protected speech then so should 'your money or your life' when uttered by a highwayman, who by your logic is merely proposing a bargain that the recipient is free to decline.