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New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

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Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#201

Post by krenden9 »

j2bax wrote: post #193
krenden9 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally lie any time a recruiter asks for my current/past salary. How much I lie depends on what I think I should be getting for the role, and how likely it is that they can and will confirm the numbers I gave. At my most recent past job, I was working for some guys at a small startup for next to nothing in salary (~$40k). I had a 10% stake in equity, but it was worth nothing, since the company was in debt. When I…

I hope I never hire someone like you by accident. I have a feeling it wouldn't take long until this outlook would lead to other problems in the workplace that would have you on to your next con.

Yes, because deceit runs through my soul and my heart is as black as damask cloth. The fact that I want to be paid what I feel I should and can be paid has no bearing on my performance and attitude at work. If you were to speak to any of my past employers, they would probably use the same sideways compliment my high school calc teacher wrote on a college recommendation: "brilliant, but like lightning in a bottle."

You'd be fortunate to hire someone like me.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#202

Post by jjnoakes »

davemel37 wrote: post #199
pc86 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why we publish salary ranges with our job ads but also require a desired salary within that range from candidates.

Every time I ever tried this, the candidates hover around the top of the range regardless of qualification and experience.

Which is fine; if you can argue that their experience may not merit top of the range, you just negotiate down a bit...

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#203

Post by ryandrake »

tehlike wrote: post #138
ingenuous2 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My preferred technique is to mentally baseline my current total comp, then shoot for that as my base at my next position. You really shouldn't compare salaries, since benefits can vary so much. So if I'm making $100k in base now, but have a good bonus structure, a good vacation package, health, retirement, etc., could make that total comp closer to $150. So that's what I say is my current compensation -- most people…

in tech companies, bonus + equity is usually multiples of the base salary.

1. Parent post was just for illustration, he's probably not talking about his actual salary + equity.

2. Is that really true? Multiples? Maybe for the CEO! I've been in tech for almost 2 decades and have never seen an equity package of more than ~25% or so of base salary. Usually it's about 5-10%, no?

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#204

Post by Frondo »

gregmac wrote: post #188
jnwatson wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. An additional argument for lying is that you're probably already lying in other parts of the interview. Why do you want to work here? (money, and the desire to pay the bills and feed my children) Where do you see yourself in 5 years? (probably not at this company) What is your biggest weakness? (not like I would actually tell a stranger a real answer)

If these are honestly your answers to these questions and you in fact give lies as answers, you sound like exactly the type of person I absolutely hate working with and actively try to weed out during interviewing. To anyone reading this new to the industry, there are absolutely legitimate ways to answer these questions without lying. > Why do you want to work here? (money, and the desire to pay the bills and feed my…

"I want to work with someone that's at least somewhat excited about the job they're going to be doing, and bring some energy, new ideas and actually care about doing a good job. It's the difference between a day labourer and a craftsman."

If you're paying craftsman wages, then there really should never be a problem here, even if people just want to bring their A game for the money.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#205

Post by bobbyadamson »

dajohnson89 wrote: post #14
paulcole wrote: post #4

Good. Not enough people realize the best way to answer this question is with a straight-up lie.

The problem is, recruiters/hiring managers will sometimes call your former employer to verify your actual salary.

Here's what I don't understand about this argument - if you're negotiating for a new job, wouldn't the implication be that your current employer is not aware of it? And that any contact for this kind of information by your potential new employer would be an obvious breach of that secrecy?

Do you all quit your jobs before you find new ones? What am I missing here?

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#206

Post by ryandrake »

mbroshi wrote: post #73
CJefferson wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is the one way communication. I would personally have no problem giving out my past salary, in return for the current salaries if all comparable current employees at the company.

You can refuse to answer their question. You can also ask them how much others are making at your position (and they can refuse to answer that, too). I don't see where the asymmetry is.

It's often more a power asymmetry. You need the job, they have a line of candidates out the door.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#207

Post by pm24601 »

kesselvon wrote: post #91
ransom1538 wrote: post #71

So people on HN are pro employers posting their employee salaries publicly but against previous companies asking what their salaries are. WTF. I must be missing something here. I personally believe your salary is your business. Period. Getting salary information bad, forcing employees to divulge salaries from a position of power is disgusting. Here is me being publicly quartered on HN for pushing back on forcing empl…

Companies asking for your previous salary means theyre going to try to pay you with your past salary being a benchmark to work with, not necessarily what the position is worth. Companies posting employee salaries publicly aims for employees at said company to be paid at the same level (with similar experience). There's a subtle difference. Every time I've been asked about salary its been an obvious ploy to lowball my…

> Employees literally have zero incentive not to lie, since employers can't verify

Bad assumption.

A previous employer might reveal it. The future employer could ask for W-2's

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#208

Post by DiabloD3 »

adrr wrote: post #181
josho wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sort of doesn't matter if it's legally true, it's an easy out of the question which is the goal. If the other side pushes harder you can simply assert that's your reading of the terms of the contract and you aren't about to risk breaching your contract. Even better, after stating the above use it as a segue-way into them disclosing the range, e.g. since I'm not a liberty to share, perhaps you can tell me (the sala…

I'd highly recommend not lying a hiring manager.

I'd highly recommend not hiring a lying manager.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#209

Post by robrenaud »

adrr wrote: post #181
josho wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sort of doesn't matter if it's legally true, it's an easy out of the question which is the goal. If the other side pushes harder you can simply assert that's your reading of the terms of the contract and you aren't about to risk breaching your contract. Even better, after stating the above use it as a segue-way into them disclosing the range, e.g. since I'm not a liberty to share, perhaps you can tell me (the sala…

I'd highly recommend not lying a hiring manager.

Are you a hiring manager?

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#210

Post by akud »

clavalle wrote: post #175
pmoriarty wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never consider interviewing and negotiations a waste of time. It's very valuable practice, no matter what the outcome. Practice is how I get better at both. The more interviews I go on and the more times I negotiate salary, the better I get. Also, even if a company can't hire me at the moment due to real budget constraints, they might be able to do so in the future, or perhaps one of the people I interviewed and im…

>I never consider interviewing and negotiations a waste of time. As an employer, I do. I once made the mistake of spending a lot of time interviewing a candidate assuming that their salary expectations would be around market rates...they weren't. This was years ago and it chaps me a bit to this day that I made such a rookie blunder. I won't make that mistake again. I ask for a range right off and give one in return.…

Given that candidates are justifiably wary of naming a number first, if you don't want to waste your time, it behooves you to name your range first.
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