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New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

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Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#211

I never answer questions about my past or expected salary, not to employers and not to recruiters. Most employers don't ask, and the few that have (perhaps by having a part of an employment form ask for previous salary) have never made my leaving that information out an issue. Most recruiters, if they even ask, respect my decision not to talk about it, but I've been pressed hard on this by a handful of recruiters, an…

Agree with you in principle (your previous deal with company A is absolutely none of company B's business) but I would like to challenge you on one point: > I'm placed at a disadvantage in negotiations if I name a number first. ... This is unlikely to be true. Generally, in price negotiations it is advantageous to name a number first. This is known as anchoring and basically the theory is that the end result is bette…

In places that don't use salary bands, many companies will hit you with previous salary + 10%.

In one place that I worked at, salary for a common technical job title (n=100) varied by 50%. The mechanics were pretty obvious. People who worked their way up got screwed with the 10% raise bullshit, and people who came in through some other means were able to extract higher salaries.

Where I find this stuff annoying is where there is no signal about the salary level. One placed I spoke to many years ago was advertising for a position that was probably worth $100-105k in the market, but they were hiring at $50k.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#212
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally lie any time a recruiter asks for my current/past salary. How much I lie depends on what I think I should be getting for the role, and how likely it is that they can and will confirm the numbers I gave. At my most recent past job, I was working for some guys at a small startup for next to nothing in salary (~$40k). I had a 10% stake in equity, but it was worth nothing, since the company was in debt. When I…

I hope I never hire someone like you by accident. I have a feeling it wouldn't take long until this outlook would lead to other problems in the workplace that would have you on to your next con.

>I hope I never hire someone like you by accident.

It's likely employers like you that force employees to lie. It's amazing when employers are handed resumes that are anonymized, such as names, race, and sex information are removed they choose resumes with less bias. Yet you refuse to see that pricing information will cause additional bias on your part.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#213
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Employers ask for your salary to make sure it makes sense to talk. Everyone mentions it to be lowballing you. But what do you think happens when you mention a higher number than they expect? While it sometimes will end the conversation (because they're unwilling to pay), sometimes they'll match that, leading to a higher salary than what the offer would have been. Of course, often, including in big companies, the back…

It's a classic negotiation problem. From the employee's point of view: If you specify a number, you have either A) disqualified yourself due to it being too high or B) set a cap on your potential salary (they may have been willing to pay more). Neither scenario represents upside for you. From the employer's point of view: If the company specifies a number, it has either A) disqualified itself due to it being too low…

> If you specify a number, you have either A) disqualified yourself due to it being too high or B) set a cap on your potential salary (they may have been willing to pay more). Neither scenario represents upside for you.

Those are hardly the only outcomes. An impressive salary history can raise the esteem of a candidate. It's a signal that makes the candidate look good, should the employer attach meaning to it, which they're free to do or not do. But it won't hurt you.

The real world is more fluid and complex than just these two rigid outcomes. An employer can put a salary range in writing and then find a great candidate who's simply worth more, and in a market where talent is hard to find you don't turn away great candidates, you reshape the job description. Or maybe the hiring manager passes the employee to a different department or different company with an opening with a higher range. Or maybe the hiring manager passes because they just can't do it but 6 weeks later you get a call back because they haven't found anyone better and the manager got more desperate or fought their boss to increase the hiring budget.

And if your previous salary is higher than the absolute range of the job you're interviewing for, you're still free to tell the employer you're okay with that, if you are. I've done it before. You can also use it to negotiate other benefits. Maybe they're inflexible on the top end of the salary range but you can get extra equity or vacation out of it.

> If the company specifies a number, it has either A) disqualified itself due to it being too low

You must believe ranges have some flexibility or else a company disqualifying itself is upside for them because it saves them the time of interviewing candidates who aren't willing to take the disclosed range.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#214
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately there are employers in NYC who do call previous employers to verify salary. Remember that most white-collar employees are in much less demand than developers and have to deal with far more employer bullshit.

How can it be legal for an employer to disclose a specific employees salary to a third party?

Is there any express reason it is illegal?

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#215
Don't have to ask. The data is open:

https://gist.github.com/rodionos/b77080e028e3b680b2c1b5091ba...

Source: https://catalog.data.gov/dataset/civil-list-2014

> The Civil List reports the agency code (DPT), first initial and last name (NAME), agency name (ADDRESS), title code (TTL #), pay class (PC), and salary (SAL-RATE) of individuals who were employed by the City of New York at any given time during the indicated year.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#216

Don't have to ask. The data is open: https://gist.github.com/rodionos/b77080e028e3b680b2c1b5091ba... Source: https://catalog.data.gov/dataset/civil-list-2014 > The Civil List reports the agency code (DPT), first initial and last name (NAME), agency name (ADDRESS), title code (TTL #), pay class (PC), and salary (SAL-RATE) of individuals who were employed by the City of New York at any given time during the indicated y…

The vast majority of employees in NYC do not work for the city.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#217

Don't have to ask. The data is open: https://gist.github.com/rodionos/b77080e028e3b680b2c1b5091ba... Source: https://catalog.data.gov/dataset/civil-list-2014 > The Civil List reports the agency code (DPT), first initial and last name (NAME), agency name (ADDRESS), title code (TTL #), pay class (PC), and salary (SAL-RATE) of individuals who were employed by the City of New York at any given time during the indicated y…

That is only for employees of the city. This law is for all COMPANIES operating in the city.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#218

Don't have to ask. The data is open: https://gist.github.com/rodionos/b77080e028e3b680b2c1b5091ba... Source: https://catalog.data.gov/dataset/civil-list-2014 > The Civil List reports the agency code (DPT), first initial and last name (NAME), agency name (ADDRESS), title code (TTL #), pay class (PC), and salary (SAL-RATE) of individuals who were employed by the City of New York at any given time during the indicated y…

This bill applies to private companies too. In cases where a company discovers your past salary without asking, the bill makes it illegal to rely on that to determine an offer.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#219
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anchoring only works if the potential employer is ready to buy. Many, many organizations will simply use the number as yet another filter, and you won't even begin discussions. By giving a number first, you're either too high and you won't have an opportunity to sell yourself, you're too low and you've literally already negotiated against yourself, or you're lucky and right at their expectation, which you could have…

This is why we publish salary ranges with our job ads but also require a desired salary within that range from candidates.

Thank you for doing that.

I try to only ever apply to jobs with salary range posted. Although as a developer is becoming increasingly hard to find those posts

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