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New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

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Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#91

Post by kesselvon »

ransom1538 wrote: post #71

So people on HN are pro employers posting their employee salaries publicly but against previous companies asking what their salaries are. WTF. I must be missing something here. I personally believe your salary is your business. Period. Getting salary information bad, forcing employees to divulge salaries from a position of power is disgusting. Here is me being publicly quartered on HN for pushing back on forcing empl…

Companies asking for your previous salary means theyre going to try to pay you with your past salary being a benchmark to work with, not necessarily what the position is worth.

Companies posting employee salaries publicly aims for employees at said company to be paid at the same level (with similar experience).

There's a subtle difference.

Every time I've been asked about salary its been an obvious ploy to lowball my salary due to previous experience of working in a lower cost area. Employees literally have zero incentive not to lie, since employers can't verify

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#92

Post by xyzzy4 »

mbillie1 wrote: post #54
xyzzy4 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Most companies already prohibit employees from discussing salaries, under penalty of termination. This is actually illegal in many states. Workers have a legal right to discuss salaries. >Freedom of speech pertains to legislation from congress preventing political speech. Not correct. Free speech is about any freedom of expression, not just political speech. There is endless amounts of case law to back this up.

Please document some of this case law!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Supreme_...

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#93

Post by sidlls »

tlrobinson wrote: post #8
paulcole wrote: post #4

Good. Not enough people realize the best way to answer this question is with a straight-up lie.

Could that be considered fraud?

No more than:

* We hire only the best

* We value your career progress

* We are transparent about the company's strategies and financials

* We value taking the time to think through the design of features and products

And so on. Most of which are, to be charitable, only very loosely applicable when they aren't outright lies.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#94

Post by southphillyman »

josh_fyi wrote: post #55
phil21 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It took me a while to understand that most people don't realize you can lie on this with almost zero downside. Very few employers are checking, and very few times is that information legally available to them. The most they can typically get is the "typical" salary for a given position at a large company. There are exceptions of course, and the good ole' boys network can sometimes run deep. But in the end, if you are…

You have some leeway. If you say "My compensation was $70K" and your salary was $50K, you may well be telling the truth.

Going forward I'm including calculations for free lunch, the relatively excessive amount of PTO days I get every year (30+), and the relatively affordable insurance I have ($140 per monthly for a family). Locally I think it will be hard to get a similar benefit package so I'm going to quantify those benefits and bake them into my "salary".

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#95

Post by davidiach »

jhasse wrote: post #58
jimparkins wrote: post #20

Have a google for: "can i lie to a employer about past salary" - it really really messes with people - people feel super uncertain about how to approach this situation. Throwing any confidence they have during the negotiation out the window. Even now I hesitate to write this as a million people will come out and say never lie - what if they found out. More than banning. There needs to be acceptance that if someone as…

In Geemany you are allowed to lie to any question the employer doesn't have the right to ask (e.g. Are you pregnant?)

Did not know that. Is asking for past salary in that category as well? I've been asked about past salary many times.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#96

Post by alistairSH »

louisswiss wrote: post #82
pmoriarty wrote: post #43

I never answer questions about my past or expected salary, not to employers and not to recruiters. Most employers don't ask, and the few that have (perhaps by having a part of an employment form ask for previous salary) have never made my leaving that information out an issue. Most recruiters, if they even ask, respect my decision not to talk about it, but I've been pressed hard on this by a handful of recruiters, an…

Agree with you in principle (your previous deal with company A is absolutely none of company B's business) but I would like to challenge you on one point: > I'm placed at a disadvantage in negotiations if I name a number first. ... This is unlikely to be true. Generally, in price negotiations it is advantageous to name a number first. This is known as anchoring and basically the theory is that the end result is bette…

The parent is discussing prior salaries. You are discussing requested salaries.

If specifically asked "What is your current salary?" you would typically respond with the actual current salary, not your ideal new salary.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#97

Post by gdulli »

ballenf wrote: post #74
gdulli wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say I'd fight against the existence of the law. I said people who are hurt by the law should retain the same negotiating power they had before rather than lose their right.

You won't lose any negotiating power. Just because they can't ask doesn't mean you can't counter an offer and ask for a higher salary. If they want you and think you're worth it, you'll get it. Just don't see them not being able to ask really shifting the negotiating power much if any for you.

Likewise, just because an employer offers a lower salary than you want based on your salary history doesn't mean you can't counter with the salary you want. If they want you and think you're worth it, you'll get it.

The benefit of telling a prospective employer that a previous employer decided you were worth an above-average salary vs. simply requesting an above-average salary without context is obvious.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#98

Post by lr4444lr »

ransom1538 wrote: post #71

So people on HN are pro employers posting their employee salaries publicly but against previous companies asking what their salaries are. WTF. I must be missing something here. I personally believe your salary is your business. Period. Getting salary information bad, forcing employees to divulge salaries from a position of power is disgusting. Here is me being publicly quartered on HN for pushing back on forcing empl…

Posting salaries anonymously and in aggregate does not disadvantage the employee. HR depts. already have a rough estimate of the average paid by other companies. Those postings merely level the playing field for job seekers.

Though I don't support the law, the two points you raised are completely consistent.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#99

Post by Bartweiss »

kesselvon wrote: post #91
ransom1538 wrote: post #71

So people on HN are pro employers posting their employee salaries publicly but against previous companies asking what their salaries are. WTF. I must be missing something here. I personally believe your salary is your business. Period. Getting salary information bad, forcing employees to divulge salaries from a position of power is disgusting. Here is me being publicly quartered on HN for pushing back on forcing empl…

Companies asking for your previous salary means theyre going to try to pay you with your past salary being a benchmark to work with, not necessarily what the position is worth. Companies posting employee salaries publicly aims for employees at said company to be paid at the same level (with similar experience). There's a subtle difference. Every time I've been asked about salary its been an obvious ploy to lowball my…

It's also worth recognizing that things are very different if this becomes universal. If one company asks for your salary at another, they get a chance to underpay. But if every company publishes salaries, they don't get to low-ball no matter what you were getting before.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#100

Post by vidarh »

louisswiss wrote: post #82
pmoriarty wrote: post #43

I never answer questions about my past or expected salary, not to employers and not to recruiters. Most employers don't ask, and the few that have (perhaps by having a part of an employment form ask for previous salary) have never made my leaving that information out an issue. Most recruiters, if they even ask, respect my decision not to talk about it, but I've been pressed hard on this by a handful of recruiters, an…

Agree with you in principle (your previous deal with company A is absolutely none of company B's business) but I would like to challenge you on one point: > I'm placed at a disadvantage in negotiations if I name a number first. ... This is unlikely to be true. Generally, in price negotiations it is advantageous to name a number first. This is known as anchoring and basically the theory is that the end result is bette…

Note that this assumes your information about your market value is at least roughly in line with their information about your market value. If there's a big discrepancy in what you believe you're worth, then the benefit can easily flip the other way.
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