High school journalists investigated a new principal’s credentials • Hacker News Board

Re: High school journalists investigated a new principal’s credentials

#81

Post by jawns » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 2:32 PM UTC

ams6110 wrote: post #74

jawns wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, not all U.S. states give students this right. When I was co-editor of my high school's student newspaper, every issue was subject to administrative review. Our principal literally read every issue prior to publication and told us what could and couldn't be run.

> When I was co-editor of my high school's student newspaper, every issue was subject to administrative review. Our principal literally read every issue prior to publication and told us what could and couldn't be run. No different from any "real" newspaper.

It's true that publishers of "real" newspapers sometimes exert this sort of influence, which is unfortunate.

But those publishers aren't subject to the First Amendment, because they're not government-run.

In the case of a school newspaper, however, the school is run by the state, and so First Amendment issues definitely do come into play.

Re: High school journalists investigated a new principal’s credentials

#82

Post by hn_user2 » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 2:35 PM UTC

jawns wrote: post #71

secfirstmd wrote: post #65

This happen in my school in Ireland also - with false credentials. This part of the story I really respect: "Under Kansas law, high school journalists are protected from administrative censorship. “The kids are treated as professionals,” Smith said. But with that freedom came a major responsibility to get the story right, Smith said. It also meant overcoming a natural hesitancy many students have to question authorit…

Unfortunately, not all U.S. states give students this right. When I was co-editor of my high school's student newspaper, every issue was subject to administrative review. Our principal literally read every issue prior to publication and told us what could and couldn't be run.

Actually we learned in our high school journalism classes that these protections are federal and based off of court cases. Part of our high-school journalism curriculum was learning the court cases that protected our rights as high-school journalists from school administration interference.

Of course, a school intent on interfering with a newspaper is probably not going to make that part of the curriculum.

Re: High school journalists investigated a new principal’s credentials

#83

Post by cwingrav » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 2:35 PM UTC

pavel_lishin wrote: post #66

jrs235 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a story about a teacher near where I live who only got outted for a fake degree when he ran for a school board. And from stories I have heard from his students, he got the fake doctorate degree because he wanted to be called doctor. In fact if students in high school called him Mr. Kulas he would correct them (sometimes chew them out) that he is to be referred to as Dr. Kulas. Use imcognito mode to open this…

We had a high school teacher who demanded that we address them as Dr. Whozits on the first day, and would correct us. They learned that you can demand respect all you want, but if you actually want to get respect, you have to earn it from the people you're expecting it from.

They earned the title so you should show respect by properly addressing them. Go ahead and call a judge "Mr(s)" or an officer "dude" and see how far it gets you. Whether you like them or not, it's up to you do decide for sure, but have some manners, it will help you out in life.

Re: High school journalists investigated a new principal’s credentials

#84

Post by moftz » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 2:36 PM UTC

derrickdirge wrote: post #55

caf wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article ( http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-04-06/principal-resigns-afte... ) has a quote from Superintendent Destry Brown: "He said the district, which does not typically ask for official transcripts until after a hiring decision has been made, will likely change its vetting process."

What an excuse. He describes a very poor practice that they still failed to follow.

All it takes is just one person in the first spot in her listing of jobs on her resume to fail to properly vet her. Once you start having job experience, people don't look as hard at your resume. Nobody wants to do all the legwork verifying transcripts and calling up references, they just assume someone else down the line did the work. The resume looks impressive but she's not claiming a Harvard doctorate so it doesn't sound totally incredible. I laugh that they can't even find records of her getting a bachelor's. That's when you know someone at her first job was either very lazy to not even verify her or she got in because she knew someone and they didn't bother to check anything.

Re: High school journalists investigated a new principal’s credentials

#85

Post by cwingrav » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 2:38 PM UTC

ryanmarsh wrote: post #69

kelvin0 wrote: post #61

I applaud the budding journalists persistence, and certainly having someone falsify their credentials is a really terrible start into such an important position. However, I must mention that I been in contact with so many really bad HS staff (teachers, principals..) all with legitimate credentials, that I am starting to wonder about their significance? A principal should probably have some teaching experience, but se…

In the US I feel like the primary education system is simply childcare for the working class. My experience with teacher quality was just like yours.

We don't pay them well so we get what we pay for. The exceptions are those that love to teach and love students. You can't run an organization via exceptions however. It's really a shame we don't value education more.

Re: High school journalists investigated a new principal’s credentials

#86

Post by Cyph0n » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 2:39 PM UTC

pavel_lishin wrote: post #66

jrs235 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a story about a teacher near where I live who only got outted for a fake degree when he ran for a school board. And from stories I have heard from his students, he got the fake doctorate degree because he wanted to be called doctor. In fact if students in high school called him Mr. Kulas he would correct them (sometimes chew them out) that he is to be referred to as Dr. Kulas. Use imcognito mode to open this…

We had a high school teacher who demanded that we address them as Dr. Whozits on the first day, and would correct us. They learned that you can demand respect all you want, but if you actually want to get respect, you have to earn it from the people you're expecting it from.

He earned that title, and he was your teacher (a superior), so I don't understand why you were annoyed. Most importantly, it was the first day! Think of an interview for example: would it be polite to address your interviewer using his/her first name? No, unless the interviewer gives you permission to do so.

Edit: It seems like a lot of HN users have a severe aversion to authority, so I guess I've learned something new today :P

Re: High school journalists investigated a new principal’s credentials

#87

Post by maxerickson » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 2:43 PM UTC

Cyph0n wrote: post #86

pavel_lishin wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had a high school teacher who demanded that we address them as Dr. Whozits on the first day, and would correct us. They learned that you can demand respect all you want, but if you actually want to get respect, you have to earn it from the people you're expecting it from.

He earned that title, and he was your teacher (a superior), so I don't understand why you were annoyed. Most importantly, it was the first day! Think of an interview for example: would it be polite to address your interviewer using his/her first name? No, unless the interviewer gives you permission to do so. Edit: It seems like a lot of HN users have a severe aversion to authority, so I guess I've learned something n…

teacher (a superior)

Because that's stupid. Provisional respect, sure. Continued respect after acting like a buffoon? Nah.

Of course, it might be pragmatic to continue the expected ceremonies of respect, but that ain't respect.

Re: High school journalists investigated a new principal’s credentials

#88

Post by jrs235 » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 2:44 PM UTC

Cyph0n wrote: post #86

pavel_lishin wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had a high school teacher who demanded that we address them as Dr. Whozits on the first day, and would correct us. They learned that you can demand respect all you want, but if you actually want to get respect, you have to earn it from the people you're expecting it from.

He earned that title, and he was your teacher (a superior), so I don't understand why you were annoyed. Most importantly, it was the first day! Think of an interview for example: would it be polite to address your interviewer using his/her first name? No, unless the interviewer gives you permission to do so. Edit: It seems like a lot of HN users have a severe aversion to authority, so I guess I've learned something n…

He earned the title, not respect. Yes, we should be respectful of everyone, but just because you have a title doesn't mean you can go around demanding to be respected [if you're also being a pompous ass].

Edit: Well, you can go around demanding it but you're delusional if you think people actually respect you.

Re: High school journalists investigated a new principal’s credentials

#89

Post by panzagl » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 2:46 PM UTC

ryanmarsh wrote: post #69

kelvin0 wrote: post #61

I applaud the budding journalists persistence, and certainly having someone falsify their credentials is a really terrible start into such an important position. However, I must mention that I been in contact with so many really bad HS staff (teachers, principals..) all with legitimate credentials, that I am starting to wonder about their significance? A principal should probably have some teaching experience, but se…

In the US I feel like the primary education system is simply childcare for the working class. My experience with teacher quality was just like yours.

High School is secondary education. Primary education is much harder and for some reason much less well rewarded. Everyone remembers the high school teachers who were phoning it in, but forgets about the elementary school teachers who taught them well enough to be able to make the distinction.

Re: High school journalists investigated a new principal’s credentials

#90

Post by Digory » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 2:47 PM UTC

BrandonMarc wrote: post #15

The articles I've found have all conveniently avoided answering the biggest question: why didn't the "adults" running the school figure this out sooner? ideally, before she was hired? That the students figured it out is proof it was certainly possible to figure out.

If you read between the lines, it seems odd to me that the district superintendent "encouraged" the investigation prior to publication. Sounds like a turf war.

So if this decision was made by the Board without staff assistance, I can see them being swayed heavily by a female candidate who had international experience. It's the ol' out-of-town expert bias.