High school journalists investigated a new principal’s credentials • Hacker News Board

Re: High school journalists investigated a new principal’s credentials

#71

Post by jawns » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 1:51 PM UTC

secfirstmd wrote: post #65

This happen in my school in Ireland also - with false credentials. This part of the story I really respect: "Under Kansas law, high school journalists are protected from administrative censorship. “The kids are treated as professionals,” Smith said. But with that freedom came a major responsibility to get the story right, Smith said. It also meant overcoming a natural hesitancy many students have to question authorit…

Unfortunately, not all U.S. states give students this right.

When I was co-editor of my high school's student newspaper, every issue was subject to administrative review. Our principal literally read every issue prior to publication and told us what could and couldn't be run.

Re: High school journalists investigated a new principal’s credentials

#72

Post by ams6110 » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 1:53 PM UTC

lordnacho wrote: post #25

It's time consuming to chase down credentials, especially as when you're hiring someone, it always feels more likely that they aren't making it up. After all, you have a great hiring process, right? My father-in-law is a doctor, and he tells me there's been several occasions where he's thought some colleague was really quite shockingly ill informed. He's always been too timid to call the bluff, but he says it's happe…

I've never worked anywhere that actually checked references or verified credentials as part of the hiring process. I think it's something that is very often skipped over by employers if they like the candidate otherwise.

Re: High school journalists investigated a new principal’s credentials

#73

Post by xherberta » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 1:53 PM UTC

jstanley wrote: post #37

p49k wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain more about the cigarette burn trick? I've never heard of it.

Presumably, make the date illegible so that you can claim whatever date you like. I don't quite see how that gets you anywhere. Maybe somebody who only just got the degree is trying to claim they got it 20 years ago and have been gaining experience ever since?

If you're named after your daddy and he had the degree or certificate, changing the date would help.

Re: High school journalists investigated a new principal’s credentials

#74

Post by ams6110 » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 2:00 PM UTC

jawns wrote: post #71

secfirstmd wrote: post #65

This happen in my school in Ireland also - with false credentials. This part of the story I really respect: "Under Kansas law, high school journalists are protected from administrative censorship. “The kids are treated as professionals,” Smith said. But with that freedom came a major responsibility to get the story right, Smith said. It also meant overcoming a natural hesitancy many students have to question authorit…

Unfortunately, not all U.S. states give students this right. When I was co-editor of my high school's student newspaper, every issue was subject to administrative review. Our principal literally read every issue prior to publication and told us what could and couldn't be run.

> When I was co-editor of my high school's student newspaper, every issue was subject to administrative review. Our principal literally read every issue prior to publication and told us what could and couldn't be run.

No different from any "real" newspaper.

Re: High school journalists investigated a new principal’s credentials

#75

Post by xherberta » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 2:04 PM UTC

BrandonMarc wrote: post #15

The articles I've found have all conveniently avoided answering the biggest question: why didn't the "adults" running the school figure this out sooner? ideally, before she was hired? That the students figured it out is proof it was certainly possible to figure out.

To give the adults a little credit, the students may have had more time to work on the mystery. The adults on the hiring committee were simultaneously holding down jobs, maintaining homes, changing diapers, cooking for their families, etc.

The hiring committee probably had deadlines for researching the candidates and making final decisions, whereas the students didn't have the same sort of time constraints. (I don't mean to minimize the achievement of the students! But you asked for factors that could have allowed the adults to miss this one.)

The woman was probably fairly charismatic to pull this off. The hiring committee surely had several face-to-face meetings with her and was swayed by her charm. The students would have seen her 'fake principal' self rather than her 'job interview' self. They didn't get the full snow job, so they were perhaps freer to think more objectively.

Also, I'm sure there's a false sense of safety in numbers for the hiring committee: if one person (or every person) had vague doubts, they might think, "Oh well, everyone else seems to think she's okay."

Re: High school journalists investigated a new principal’s credentials

#76

Post by pc86 » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 2:07 PM UTC

jessaustin wrote: post #60

sampo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are credentials not verified when hiring someone? The verification work is probably outsourced to some company that does that kind of background checks. Or just takes your money and doesn't do any work, as the case might be.

What sort of credentials are required to do background checks? Who verifies the verifiers?

There are several independent sources that will verify graduate information. They have a list of schools that work with them and get some subset of personal information (name + DOB and degree conferred, I would imagine) each quarter/year which they just keep and use to verify. National Student Clearinghouse[0] is the largest, I believe.

For schools not using any of these programs, you can always just call the school. My alma mater is part of NSC but will also respond to individual requests directly.

[0] http://www.studentclearinghouse.org/

Re: High school journalists investigated a new principal’s credentials

#77

Post by pc86 » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 2:11 PM UTC

mratzloff wrote: post #24

jlarocco wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to know how impressed to be without knowing what you do ;-) Usually the only time education is important on a resume is when a person has no other relevant experience.

Or in academia.

Or in most non-tech jobs. You can't be a nutritionist without a four-year degree in Nutrition (or I believe a few very closely related fields). There are even some fitness certifications you can't get without (any) four-year degree. No amount of self-study or exam passage will get you to be an RN.

Tech is an outlier in that education is secondary to most other factors. I'm happy for that because my Political Science degree isn't worth much, but there are even tech companies that require a degree, or a STEM degree, to be software developers.

Re: High school journalists investigated a new principal’s credentials

#78

Post by JauntTrooper » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 2:17 PM UTC

pavel_lishin wrote: post #70

kelvin0 wrote: post #61

I applaud the budding journalists persistence, and certainly having someone falsify their credentials is a really terrible start into such an important position. However, I must mention that I been in contact with so many really bad HS staff (teachers, principals..) all with legitimate credentials, that I am starting to wonder about their significance? A principal should probably have some teaching experience, but se…

> I am starting to wonder about their significance? A principal should probably have some teaching experience, but seems to be like more of an MBA/business type of background? The important bit here isn't which particular certification this person did or didn't have; it's the fact that it was fraudulent, and that they lied about it.

At an institution that is supposed to teach the the importance of academic integrity, no less.

Re: High school journalists investigated a new principal’s credentials

#79

Post by eli » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 2:20 PM UTC

ams6110 wrote: post #74

jawns wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, not all U.S. states give students this right. When I was co-editor of my high school's student newspaper, every issue was subject to administrative review. Our principal literally read every issue prior to publication and told us what could and couldn't be run.

> When I was co-editor of my high school's student newspaper, every issue was subject to administrative review. Our principal literally read every issue prior to publication and told us what could and couldn't be run. No different from any "real" newspaper.

That's incorrect.

Re: High school journalists investigated a new principal’s credentials

#80

Post by losteverything » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 2:30 PM UTC

derrickdirge wrote: post #54

losteverything wrote: post #50

My experience with young people is they think nothing of googling someone. Example. 25yr old always G Earth the presons address, searches other sites,FB, etc As ROUTINE. New male client comes in she openly tells coworkers about her results.

My experience with old people is they take a shocking amount of time to consider googling something or they have me google it for them.

I would never had thought a normal, well reared person would Google anybody just because they can. I think the net-natives think nothing of it and probably dont think it's wrong.

My comment demonstrated my discovery that I am not surprised it was from a young person.