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Growing Ubuntu for Cloud and IoT, Rather Than Phone and Convergence

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Re: Growing Ubuntu for Cloud and IoT, Rather Than Phone and Convergence

#361

Post by angry-hacker »

pyre wrote: post #331
stinkytaco wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wayland solves a number of other problems than phones and laptops. It modernizes code left over from the dumb terminal world. It also should be pointed out that the dream is not dead. Another project (hopefully Gnome) can pick this up, so the effort isn't lost.

Which dream is not dead? Wayland? It's definitely not dead, as Wayland has both GNOME and Red Hat behind it. Ubuntu decided to roll their own (Mir) instead of also going with Wayland.

I think we both mixed up Wayland with Mir.

Most likely Ubuntu goes wit Wayland now instead of Mir.

Re: Growing Ubuntu for Cloud and IoT, Rather Than Phone and Convergence

#362

Post by stubish »

daveguy wrote: post #225
gshulegaard wrote: post #57

I may be a minority, but I am very saddened by this. Not because I have any particular love for Unity, but rather I share Mark's conviction that convergence is the future. Love or hate it but Unity was IMO the best shot we had at getting an open source unified phone, tablet and desktop experience...and now this is effectively Canonical not only shutting down Unity, but refocusing efforts away from convergence and tow…

data convergence is the future, not interface convergence . I think they made a serious mistake conflating the two. You should be able to shift your view of a document from a desktop to a laptop, but that doesn't mean the fundamental interface from one should be shoe-horned into the other. That could mean a phone that is docked, but when you have 10x the screen real estate, a keyboard and a mouse the interface should…

This was what was being attempted. The UI would be optimal for a phone, until you docked it at which point it would adjust to take advantage of the new peripherals and larger screen. Developers could write an interface that morphed, or even completely different UIs, for the different environments.

Re: Growing Ubuntu for Cloud and IoT, Rather Than Phone and Convergence

#363

Post by lvillani »

int_19h wrote: post #302
unethical_ban wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, and redshift has been available on Linux for a long time. Now it's built in the OS. Windows 10 doesn't have that. What's your point?

Win10 doesn't have it out of the box, but third-party software that implements it (like f.lux) has been available for a very long time. (Also, FWIW, Win10 insider builds do have it out of the box.)

Third party software has been available on Linux distributions for a long time all the same.

Shipping this feature out of the box with an OS install started happening only recently (e.g. Night Shift came to iOS only 1 year ago, Windows 10 is getting it just now, AOSP has a "secret" knob to turn it on and it's enabled in 3rd party ROMs, etc).

Re: Growing Ubuntu for Cloud and IoT, Rather Than Phone and Convergence

#364

Post by sandGorgon »

smilliken wrote: post #270
sandGorgon wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know - however these things are seldom demarcated on merit and more on ideology. I wish the next generation of linux has a single package manager :(

> I wish the next generation of linux has a single package manager :( Package management used to be my biggest frustration with computers. A couple years ago, I switched to nix [1][2] and now use it across all my unix-like systems (not sure how well it works on Windows, I haven't tried). Most under-rated piece of software I use, I'm surprised it hasn't blown up yet. [1] http://nixos.org/nix/ [2] https://news.ycombina…

i have the greatest of respect for nix and 0install - however its an inexorable fact that I would like a mainstream, fully supported OS on my desktop - which is either Fedora or Ubuntu.

Let me flip this question - what does nix have that snap or flatpak does not ? From what I have read, they are pretty much the same.

Re: Growing Ubuntu for Cloud and IoT, Rather Than Phone and Convergence

#365

Post by pjmlp »

profoundwhale wrote: post #341
remir wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Building something lasting takes resources. Canonical simply had no chance. Even Microsoft, despite their aquisition of Nokia, their marketing budget, their massive dev resources, is failing on mobile. They even have their own convergence feature and it's not enough to attrack customers.

Microsoft made a mobile OS that didn't offer a compelling enough alternative to either iOS or Android. iOS = Locked in ecosystem Windows Phone = Locked in ecosystem Android = Alternative to iOS Windows = Alternative to iOS On a technical level, Windows Phone devices performed around the same as iOS devices (fantastic), but lacked mainstream apps (the same problem as Blackberry) but without the backwards compatibility…

Actually by 8.1 people that don't have the bugdet to buy iPhones and disliked Android where buying Windows Phones, up to the point they almost managed 10% world wide.

But then came the Windows Phone 10 reboot, with the promise that all 8.1 devices would get an WP 10 update, promise that they eventually broke by allowing only premium devices to get it.

So no, WP wasn't doomed if Microsoft managed to keep the roadmap steady, instead of rebooting left and right.

On the other hand, they seem to be having some luck with hybrid laptops/tablets. Something that most Android devices still do very poorly.

Re: Growing Ubuntu for Cloud and IoT, Rather Than Phone and Convergence

#366

Post by LoSboccacc »

stubish wrote: post #362
daveguy wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

data convergence is the future, not interface convergence . I think they made a serious mistake conflating the two. You should be able to shift your view of a document from a desktop to a laptop, but that doesn't mean the fundamental interface from one should be shoe-horned into the other. That could mean a phone that is docked, but when you have 10x the screen real estate, a keyboard and a mouse the interface should…

This was what was being attempted. The UI would be optimal for a phone, until you docked it at which point it would adjust to take advantage of the new peripherals and larger screen. Developers could write an interface that morphed, or even completely different UIs, for the different environments.

And why developer would in an ecosystem of mostly free app?

This is a ton of added complexity to developers without any real return but for ubuntu.

And ties programs to ubuntu flavored linux, unless obe is willing to do even more work for free.

Re: Growing Ubuntu for Cloud and IoT, Rather Than Phone and Convergence

#367

Post by ZenoArrow »

tradesmanhelix wrote: post #154
kleiba wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. You say that Canonical's move from Gnome to Unity in 2010 caused a lot of strife. 2. Now they're undoing that step. Shouldn't you be happy rather than disappointed?

Yeah, I can understand how that's confusing. I meant to convey two things: 1. I mean to imply that it was a waste - they created a bunch of controversy, and for what? If they were not committed to Unity for the long-haul, they should never had made the switch away from Gnome in the first place. 2. In the intervening years since 2010, a ton of people have come to use Unity and gotten used to it instead of Gnome, and n…

>"I mean to imply that it was a waste - they created a bunch of controversy, and for what? If they were not committed to Unity for the long-haul, they should never had made the switch away from Gnome in the first place."

So in general if someone recognises they've made a mistake, they should continue on making that same mistake regardless?

>"In the intervening years since 2010, a ton of people have come to use Unity and gotten used to it instead of Gnome, and now Canonical is pulling the rug out from under those people. This whiplash, knee-jerk approach is just a horrible way to treat your users and is very disappointing."

If enough people want it, Unity can continue to exist as a community-led project, just like how GNOME 2 got saved by MATE.

Re: Growing Ubuntu for Cloud and IoT, Rather Than Phone and Convergence

#368

Post by ZenoArrow »

jhasse wrote: post #71
sambe wrote: post #41

Damn. Just been forced to switch to Mate at work and find it like living in the past. Lots of defaults seem ugly or unusable (hunting through menus for programs etc.).

GNOME 3 and MATE don't have much in common though.

Apart from GTK3.

Re: Growing Ubuntu for Cloud and IoT, Rather Than Phone and Convergence

#369

Post by tribaal »

Scarblac wrote: post #172
WD-42 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever used Gnome? There is no taskbar :)

To me as a Firefox-and-terminals user, the main difference between the two is that Unity has a fugly taskbar always on the left of my screen where I don't want it, and windows have their menu somewhere unrelated to the window (at the top of the screen). If Gnome doesn't have either, great!

You can auto-hide the taskbar, and switch to "menus in the windows" in the settings (I mean the UI, not some obscure terminal thing).

My mother in law managed to find that option on her own, I'm sure you can as well :)

Re: Growing Ubuntu for Cloud and IoT, Rather Than Phone and Convergence

#370

Post by LoSboccacc »

pyre wrote: post #333
methodin wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My phone is a computer. My chromebook is a screen attached to a computer. My desktop is a monitor attached to a computer. My work laptop is a screen attached to a computer. My tablet is a screen attached to a computer. Why do I need so many separate computers when I have my phone on me at all times?

Because your phone will never have the raw power that you can pack into a larger form factor? Granted, after a certain point this may only be relevant for specific tasks.

Pshhhh 768k ram ought to be enough
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