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Apple & HTML5

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Re: Apple & HTML5

#71

Post by tmsh »

alanh wrote: post #66
tmsh wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue may be, however, that the standards committees for HTML5 haven't defined how different implementations of these standards are supposed to play together. And the question is: does Apple have the right to define how HTML5 should be handled cross-browser? (In this case, by very simply denying all non-Safari browsers -- at least via that link -- the developer links work -- kind of.) In all fairness, I think the…

I’m sorry, but I am not sure what you are saying. Web standards circles agree that "browser sniffing" as opposed to "feature detection" is kind of evil. (See http://modernizr.com for one way to do it right.) This, however, is a very special case, where the whole point is showing what ones specific browser can do. Generally, the user's browser is irrelevant to the point of a website, and supporting as many browsers as…

That's a good point. And I can understand that Apple, esp. if they are targeting creative / ad people, are probably aiming for a completely professional look (v. Flash, etc.). Until the other browsers catch up, I suppose they have every justification for doing what they're doing. One could argue, that they don't want browsers that aren't fully conforming which might give a bad impression of the viability of this post-Flash world.

On the other hand, browser sniffing, as you mention, is a slippery slope. Maybe all they might do is acknowledge that until other browsers have fully implemented 3D CSS, etc., they are only recommending Safari.

ETA: Never mind, I went back and read the page:

Not all browsers offer this support. But soon other modern browsers will take advantage of these same web standards — and the amazing things they enable web designers to do.

Good enough I suppose...

Re: Apple & HTML5

#72

Post by joelanman »

ellyagg wrote: post #27
bradgessler wrote: post #3

Neat idea, very poor implementation. If you try to view the examples in Google Chrome, you'll get a notice that you have to download Safari ( http://skitch.com/bradgessler/dgw7p/apple-html5 ) This sets a very poor example for Apple supporting standards.

> This sets a very poor example for Apple supporting standards. Can you, or any of the dozens of upvoters, explain the logic behind that criticism? It literally seems to make no sense to me, so I must be missing something. The page talks about emerging web standards and talks about Safari and Apple's support for them. It mentions that not all browsers support all of the latest standards, and then it gives examples of…

Using Chrome in Windows I can't even click through to the examples - I get a blocking pop-up telling me to get Safari. Doesn't that, coupled with the line "soon other modern browsers will take advantage of these same web standards" imply that other browsers are lagging behind so badly they can't even try to run the examples? That seems misleading to me. The standards are not complete, but they are more widely supported than this page seems to suggest.

Contrast with Chrome's Experiments (http://www.chromeexperiments.com/) that you can try on any browser and see how it copes.

Edit: lots of the demos work perfectly well in Chrome if run from here instead: http://developer.apple.com/safaridemos/

Re: Apple & HTML5

#73

Post by ciupicri »

dieterrams wrote: post #48

Wow. I can only imagine what the reaction would have been if Google released this with Chrome-only demos. Lots of praise about how Google's leading the way, pushing browsers forward, and you really ought to give Chrome a try. But when Apple does it? A barrage of complaints about how Apple doesn't support standards. It's laughable how transparently people are looking for something, anything to bitch about when it come…

Well, Apple's page seems to emphasize HTML5 and its power, while on the other hand Google would probably explicitly brag about their Chrome browser. If Apple would rephrase the text to say something like "Look how cool Safari (and only Safari) is! You can do all this awesome stuff using HTML5, CSS etc." my reaction would be neutral or more positive.

Re: Apple & HTML5

#74

Post by alanh »

buster wrote: post #67
dieterrams wrote: post #48

Wow. I can only imagine what the reaction would have been if Google released this with Chrome-only demos. Lots of praise about how Google's leading the way, pushing browsers forward, and you really ought to give Chrome a try. But when Apple does it? A barrage of complaints about how Apple doesn't support standards. It's laughable how transparently people are looking for something, anything to bitch about when it come…

So, when MS crippled web development for years with it's browser strategy and proprietary crap it was widely considered very harmful for the web. Now, when Apple does it, it's "pushing the web forward"? We would all use ActiveX controls and be stuck with IE6 if everyone would think like you. And i would argue every company would get the same "hate". Even worse, we've all had this in the past, now we should do everyth…

Your comment betrays an extreme misunderstanding of vendor prefixes and the nature of standards development compared to a proprietary system of browser plug-ins. See other comments on this page. And it wasn’t ActiveX that crippled web development, buster. It was the lack of progress and support for emerging web standards like CSS2 and PNG. By contributing to standards, the Webkit team creates the exact opposite effect of IE6. (Accidentally upvoted)

Re: Apple & HTML5

#75

Post by niceguy101 »

buster wrote: post #12
bradgessler wrote: post #3

Neat idea, very poor implementation. If you try to view the examples in Google Chrome, you'll get a notice that you have to download Safari ( http://skitch.com/bradgessler/dgw7p/apple-html5 ) This sets a very poor example for Apple supporting standards.

So much for "standard". I wouldn't have expected understanding of "open" from this company, anyway. Yesterday Flash was bad, but today it's fine to write websites that only work in Safari, while using some Apple-specific HTML/CSS-tags.

What if it works only in Safari? Apple has done all the hard work, and now what all-other browser vendors have to do is, implement these open standards Apple has developed. Apple do not plan to allow Java,Qt,Flash and all these unnecessary platforms on their devices. Safari is the alternative Apple has. I dont see any reason why other vendors shouldn't embrace Apple's open standards

Stop hating Apple for no reason.

Re: Apple & HTML5

#76

Post by csomar »

ellyagg wrote: post #27
bradgessler wrote: post #3

Neat idea, very poor implementation. If you try to view the examples in Google Chrome, you'll get a notice that you have to download Safari ( http://skitch.com/bradgessler/dgw7p/apple-html5 ) This sets a very poor example for Apple supporting standards.

> This sets a very poor example for Apple supporting standards. Can you, or any of the dozens of upvoters, explain the logic behind that criticism? It literally seems to make no sense to me, so I must be missing something. The page talks about emerging web standards and talks about Safari and Apple's support for them. It mentions that not all browsers support all of the latest standards, and then it gives examples of…

So let's read again the pop-up message

You’ll need to download Safari to view this demo. This demo was designed with the latest web standards supported by Safari. If you’d like to experience this demo, simply download Safari. It’s free for Mac and PC, and it only takes a few minutes.

As you see, it doesn't mention that MY BROWSER doesn't support the latest web standards. It simply says, that Safari supports web standards and that if you want to check the demo, download Safari. If you don't want to download Safari, you won't see the demo.

The Message is clear.

Re: Apple & HTML5

#78

Post by al_james »

niceguy101 wrote: post #70
al_james wrote: post #68

Has anyone tried these on iPad or iPhone? Some of them are not smooth on my macbook, surly they must suck on a low CPU device? Or am I wrong?

Tried on my iphone and iPad. The demos work at low framerate and is kind of slow. But its just a mobile device. I am not really expecting cpu intensive html5 application to work on these light devices. Thats what my macpro is for.

Yeah, but Apple seem to be suggesting that you can use HTML5 for nice looking (near native animation) effects on these devices.

Re: Apple & HTML5

#79

Post by joelanman »

csomar wrote: post #76
ellyagg wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This sets a very poor example for Apple supporting standards. Can you, or any of the dozens of upvoters, explain the logic behind that criticism? It literally seems to make no sense to me, so I must be missing something. The page talks about emerging web standards and talks about Safari and Apple's support for them. It mentions that not all browsers support all of the latest standards, and then it gives examples of…

So let's read again the pop-up message You’ll need to download Safari to view this demo. This demo was designed with the latest web standards supported by Safari. If you’d like to experience this demo, simply download Safari. It’s free for Mac and PC, and it only takes a few minutes. As you see, it doesn't mention that MY BROWSER doesn't support the latest web standards. It simply says, that Safari supports web stand…

Except I don't need to download Safari to view all the demos - most of them work fine in Chrome if you run them from here: http://developer.apple.com/safaridemos/

Re: Apple & HTML5

#80

Post by jasonkester »

They really open themselves up to mockery with this. Even here, in this community of people who know what's going on with W3 standards, people are finding the site confusing. Imagine the message this site is sending to the average user by putting up these cool demos that don't work on his browser:

HTML5: The standard that only works on Safari

I don't think that's the message they're trying to get across, but it's the one they're sending.

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