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Kotlin/Native Tech Preview: Kotlin without a VM

blog.jetbrains.com

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Re: Kotlin/Native Tech Preview: Kotlin without a VM

#31

Post by relics443 »

jorgemf wrote: post #20
realharo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, there is a lot of opportunity for sharing code between mobile platforms that doesn't have any real downsides. Things like: - data structures for your domain objects - network code (just plug in an appropriate platform-specific driver) - like you said, business logic - especially if the app has to work offline - if you're using something like https://realm.io/ , you could avoid a lot of duplication A…

> - data structures for your domain objects not sure there are a problem since you have data classes in kotlin. I bet swift provides something similar. > - network code In Android you must use okhttp, and I guess there are similar powerful libraries in swift for this. > - if you're using something like https://realm.io/ Last time I checked it I decided to keep using SQLite as it allows me to do everything I want. Rea…

For anyone not that familiar with Android, "must use okhttp" refers to the fact that it is the best solution, not that it's the only solution.

Re: Kotlin/Native Tech Preview: Kotlin without a VM

#32

Post by WorldMaker »

geodel wrote: post #24
wmfiv wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure. How much does Mozilla actually invest in Rust? Same with Google and Go. I would guess over the past 15 years that Sun/Oracle (Java) and Microsoft (C#/.NET) each annually spend more on language / platform development than everyone else put together does over 5 or 10 years.

Yes, I missed C#. C#/Java were largely developed in-house. So they would need huge teams and infrastructure. Rust/Go have huge community momentum so not all development is done by people paid by Google or Mozilla.

C# has a growing community momentum now, too. Very interesting to watch.

Re: Kotlin/Native Tech Preview: Kotlin without a VM

#33

Post by taude »

virtualwhys wrote: post #11

> This Technology Preview features automatic reference counting with a cycle collector on top, but what the final memory management solution(s) will look like is unknown at this point. Same issue with Scala Native[1]. Both projects are a long way from being production ready wrt to targeting ios, android and desktop. Probably at least a couple of years before either project delivers the one-language-to-rule-them-all.…

I'm curious about it without even the mobile story. But just compiling command-line apps for easy distribution, similar to GoLang.

Re: Kotlin/Native Tech Preview: Kotlin without a VM

#34

Post by zgramana »

WorldMaker wrote: post #32
geodel wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I missed C#. C#/Java were largely developed in-house. So they would need huge teams and infrastructure. Rust/Go have huge community momentum so not all development is done by people paid by Google or Mozilla.

C# has a growing community momentum now, too. Very interesting to watch.

FWIW, C# also has compiled into native executables/libs for many years via `mkbundle`[1] and into JS via several projects like Bridge.NET [2].

[1] https://linux.die.net/man/1/mkbundle

[2] https://github.com/bridgedotnet/Bridge

Re: Kotlin/Native Tech Preview: Kotlin without a VM

#35

Post by deno »

hasenj wrote: post #15
mathw wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is, but the problem with that is that they're doing it in JavaScript. Kotlin could offer better performance and certainly offers strong type safety throughout the stack, which I at least certainly believe gives a better programming experience.

Have you tried TypeScript?

Typescript is nice but its type system is not the strongest selling point.

For example this compiles without warnings:

   const foo: Promise = Promise.resolve(null);
   const bar: Promise = foo;

   bar.then((value) => value.toString()); // runtime null error

Re: Kotlin/Native Tech Preview: Kotlin without a VM

#36

Post by Entangled »

jorgemf wrote: post #23
geodel wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May they all do great. But I am sceptical that Scala/Kotlin and many others started in last decade stand chance against Java/Rust/Swift/Go. IMO these 4 are backed by powerful corporations and have large community momentum. They are going to keep >90% of all software work along with C/C++.

kotlin is backed by a tooling company. This is a very strong argument. The ones that are doing the best IDE for java (for a lot of people) are the ones that decided to create kotlin. Swift also has the tooling support of Apple, but I only read complains about tooling around Swift. Go and Rust are very niche compare to java or swift, while kotlin can replace java completely and now it is aiming for native backend proj…

This is a great point and I wonder if JetBrains released a free IDE for individual programmers it would help adopt their technologies wherever these programmers work.

Yesterday I took a look at their tools and they are all absolutely great but I didn't download a single one since they are all 30-day trial and I am as poor as fuck.

So tease me, convert me, let me use your tools for years and when the time comes I am ready for an enterprise I'd take my knowledge with me, and my tools.

JetBrains are you listening?

Re: Kotlin/Native Tech Preview: Kotlin without a VM

#37

Post by danneu »

Entangled wrote: post #36
jorgemf wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

kotlin is backed by a tooling company. This is a very strong argument. The ones that are doing the best IDE for java (for a lot of people) are the ones that decided to create kotlin. Swift also has the tooling support of Apple, but I only read complains about tooling around Swift. Go and Rust are very niche compare to java or swift, while kotlin can replace java completely and now it is aiming for native backend proj…

This is a great point and I wonder if JetBrains released a free IDE for individual programmers it would help adopt their technologies wherever these programmers work. Yesterday I took a look at their tools and they are all absolutely great but I didn't download a single one since they are all 30-day trial and I am as poor as fuck. So tease me, convert me, let me use your tools for years and when the time comes I am r…

Check out their open source license.

https://www.jetbrains.com/buy/opensource/

Re: Kotlin/Native Tech Preview: Kotlin without a VM

#38

Post by drampelt »

Entangled wrote: post #36
jorgemf wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

kotlin is backed by a tooling company. This is a very strong argument. The ones that are doing the best IDE for java (for a lot of people) are the ones that decided to create kotlin. Swift also has the tooling support of Apple, but I only read complains about tooling around Swift. Go and Rust are very niche compare to java or swift, while kotlin can replace java completely and now it is aiming for native backend proj…

This is a great point and I wonder if JetBrains released a free IDE for individual programmers it would help adopt their technologies wherever these programmers work. Yesterday I took a look at their tools and they are all absolutely great but I didn't download a single one since they are all 30-day trial and I am as poor as fuck. So tease me, convert me, let me use your tools for years and when the time comes I am r…

Intellij IDEA has a free community edition, but yeah, nothing free for commericial development. https://www.jetbrains.com/idea/download/

Re: Kotlin/Native Tech Preview: Kotlin without a VM

#39

Post by nanodeath »

Entangled wrote: post #36
jorgemf wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

kotlin is backed by a tooling company. This is a very strong argument. The ones that are doing the best IDE for java (for a lot of people) are the ones that decided to create kotlin. Swift also has the tooling support of Apple, but I only read complains about tooling around Swift. Go and Rust are very niche compare to java or swift, while kotlin can replace java completely and now it is aiming for native backend proj…

This is a great point and I wonder if JetBrains released a free IDE for individual programmers it would help adopt their technologies wherever these programmers work. Yesterday I took a look at their tools and they are all absolutely great but I didn't download a single one since they are all 30-day trial and I am as poor as fuck. So tease me, convert me, let me use your tools for years and when the time comes I am r…

Community version of IntelliJ works just fine for Kotlin development.

Re: Kotlin/Native Tech Preview: Kotlin without a VM

#40

Post by adl »

Entangled wrote: post #36
jorgemf wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

kotlin is backed by a tooling company. This is a very strong argument. The ones that are doing the best IDE for java (for a lot of people) are the ones that decided to create kotlin. Swift also has the tooling support of Apple, but I only read complains about tooling around Swift. Go and Rust are very niche compare to java or swift, while kotlin can replace java completely and now it is aiming for native backend proj…

This is a great point and I wonder if JetBrains released a free IDE for individual programmers it would help adopt their technologies wherever these programmers work. Yesterday I took a look at their tools and they are all absolutely great but I didn't download a single one since they are all 30-day trial and I am as poor as fuck. So tease me, convert me, let me use your tools for years and when the time comes I am r…

IntelliJ IDEA Community Edition is free(cero cost) and Open Source.

I believe it includes Kotlin Support.

https://www.jetbrains.com/idea/#chooseYourEdition

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