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Kotlin/Native Tech Preview: Kotlin without a VM

blog.jetbrains.com

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Re: Kotlin/Native Tech Preview: Kotlin without a VM

#21

Post by wmfiv »

geodel wrote: post #16
virtualwhys wrote: post #11

> This Technology Preview features automatic reference counting with a cycle collector on top, but what the final memory management solution(s) will look like is unknown at this point. Same issue with Scala Native[1]. Both projects are a long way from being production ready wrt to targeting ios, android and desktop. Probably at least a couple of years before either project delivers the one-language-to-rule-them-all.…

May they all do great. But I am sceptical that Scala/Kotlin and many others started in last decade stand chance against Java/Rust/Swift/Go. IMO these 4 are backed by powerful corporations and have large community momentum. They are going to keep >90% of all software work along with C/C++.

I'm not sure. How much does Mozilla actually invest in Rust? Same with Google and Go. I would guess over the past 15 years that Sun/Oracle (Java) and Microsoft (C#/.NET) each annually spend more on language / platform development than everyone else put together does over 5 or 10 years.

Re: Kotlin/Native Tech Preview: Kotlin without a VM

#22

Post by geodel »

vetinari wrote: post #18
geodel wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May they all do great. But I am sceptical that Scala/Kotlin and many others started in last decade stand chance against Java/Rust/Swift/Go. IMO these 4 are backed by powerful corporations and have large community momentum. They are going to keep >90% of all software work along with C/C++.

Some of these corporations are experts in shooting in the foot. I wanted to read 'The Swift Programming Language (Swift 3.1 Edition)'. It is just an epub, just distributed via Apple iBooks, right? When trying to open in on an Android tablet, I found out that it is DRM-ed. Why on earth would you put DRM on a publication you want to circulate as widely as possible? Why would anyone have to read reference docs for multi…

I would think it is an oversight. From their website:

> This ePub document is made available under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International (CC BY 4.0) License.

They should make PDF/html available to all.

Re: Kotlin/Native Tech Preview: Kotlin without a VM

#23

Post by jorgemf »

geodel wrote: post #16
virtualwhys wrote: post #11

> This Technology Preview features automatic reference counting with a cycle collector on top, but what the final memory management solution(s) will look like is unknown at this point. Same issue with Scala Native[1]. Both projects are a long way from being production ready wrt to targeting ios, android and desktop. Probably at least a couple of years before either project delivers the one-language-to-rule-them-all.…

May they all do great. But I am sceptical that Scala/Kotlin and many others started in last decade stand chance against Java/Rust/Swift/Go. IMO these 4 are backed by powerful corporations and have large community momentum. They are going to keep >90% of all software work along with C/C++.

kotlin is backed by a tooling company. This is a very strong argument. The ones that are doing the best IDE for java (for a lot of people) are the ones that decided to create kotlin. Swift also has the tooling support of Apple, but I only read complains about tooling around Swift. Go and Rust are very niche compare to java or swift, while kotlin can replace java completely and now it is aiming for native backend projects.

Re: Kotlin/Native Tech Preview: Kotlin without a VM

#24

Post by geodel »

wmfiv wrote: post #21
geodel wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May they all do great. But I am sceptical that Scala/Kotlin and many others started in last decade stand chance against Java/Rust/Swift/Go. IMO these 4 are backed by powerful corporations and have large community momentum. They are going to keep >90% of all software work along with C/C++.

I'm not sure. How much does Mozilla actually invest in Rust? Same with Google and Go. I would guess over the past 15 years that Sun/Oracle (Java) and Microsoft (C#/.NET) each annually spend more on language / platform development than everyone else put together does over 5 or 10 years.

Yes, I missed C#. C#/Java were largely developed in-house. So they would need huge teams and infrastructure. Rust/Go have huge community momentum so not all development is done by people paid by Google or Mozilla.

Re: Kotlin/Native Tech Preview: Kotlin without a VM

#25

Post by drew-y »

vetinari wrote: post #18
geodel wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May they all do great. But I am sceptical that Scala/Kotlin and many others started in last decade stand chance against Java/Rust/Swift/Go. IMO these 4 are backed by powerful corporations and have large community momentum. They are going to keep >90% of all software work along with C/C++.

Some of these corporations are experts in shooting in the foot. I wanted to read 'The Swift Programming Language (Swift 3.1 Edition)'. It is just an epub, just distributed via Apple iBooks, right? When trying to open in on an Android tablet, I found out that it is DRM-ed. Why on earth would you put DRM on a publication you want to circulate as widely as possible? Why would anyone have to read reference docs for multi…

The download link from swift.org doesn't seem to be DRM'd. I can open it just fine in my ePub reader. Maybe its an iBooks thing?

https://swift.org/documentation/TheSwiftProgrammingLanguage(...

Re: Kotlin/Native Tech Preview: Kotlin without a VM

#26

Post by pjmlp »

vetinari wrote: post #18
geodel wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May they all do great. But I am sceptical that Scala/Kotlin and many others started in last decade stand chance against Java/Rust/Swift/Go. IMO these 4 are backed by powerful corporations and have large community momentum. They are going to keep >90% of all software work along with C/C++.

Some of these corporations are experts in shooting in the foot. I wanted to read 'The Swift Programming Language (Swift 3.1 Edition)'. It is just an epub, just distributed via Apple iBooks, right? When trying to open in on an Android tablet, I found out that it is DRM-ed. Why on earth would you put DRM on a publication you want to circulate as widely as possible? Why would anyone have to read reference docs for multi…

No, it is distributed on the open source site since it exists.

https://swift.org/documentation/

I never had any issue reading it on Aldiko, even the Apple versions.

Re: Kotlin/Native Tech Preview: Kotlin without a VM

#27

Post by vetinari »

drew-y wrote: post #25
vetinari wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of these corporations are experts in shooting in the foot. I wanted to read 'The Swift Programming Language (Swift 3.1 Edition)'. It is just an epub, just distributed via Apple iBooks, right? When trying to open in on an Android tablet, I found out that it is DRM-ed. Why on earth would you put DRM on a publication you want to circulate as widely as possible? Why would anyone have to read reference docs for multi…

The download link from swift.org doesn't seem to be DRM'd. I can open it just fine in my ePub reader. Maybe its an iBooks thing? https://swift.org/documentation/TheSwiftProgrammingLanguage(...

Maybe iBook thing. The 3.0 edition wasn't DRM-ed, though.

Re: Kotlin/Native Tech Preview: Kotlin without a VM

#28

Post by vetinari »

pjmlp wrote: post #26
vetinari wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of these corporations are experts in shooting in the foot. I wanted to read 'The Swift Programming Language (Swift 3.1 Edition)'. It is just an epub, just distributed via Apple iBooks, right? When trying to open in on an Android tablet, I found out that it is DRM-ed. Why on earth would you put DRM on a publication you want to circulate as widely as possible? Why would anyone have to read reference docs for multi…

No, it is distributed on the open source site since it exists. https://swift.org/documentation/ I never had any issue reading it on Aldiko, even the Apple versions.

I have it from iBooks, because in the past, it wasn't on the site yet. Since then, I just update it via iBooks. The previous editions didn't have DRM either.

Re: Kotlin/Native Tech Preview: Kotlin without a VM

#29

Post by vetinari »

geodel wrote: post #22
vetinari wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of these corporations are experts in shooting in the foot. I wanted to read 'The Swift Programming Language (Swift 3.1 Edition)'. It is just an epub, just distributed via Apple iBooks, right? When trying to open in on an Android tablet, I found out that it is DRM-ed. Why on earth would you put DRM on a publication you want to circulate as widely as possible? Why would anyone have to read reference docs for multi…

I would think it is an oversight. From their website: > This ePub document is made available under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International (CC BY 4.0) License. They should make PDF/html available to all.

Hopefully, it might be oversight.

The (non-DRM) epub is fine too, it is just a bunch of of html files, zipped.

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