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Brexit Britain Could Replace Migrants with Robots

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Re: Brexit Britain Could Replace Migrants with Robots

#81

Post by Oletros »

TheGirondin wrote: post #80
Oletros wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So what limits do you want want put on immigration? I didn't asked about limits or not, I asked you proof about your claim that NOW in the UK there is "virtually unlimited immigration". You have not answered. > What steps would take to prevent people from coming a country like the US or the UK illegally? What has to do illegal immigration with this thread? This article talks about LEGAL workers > If you like most p…

My comment was based on the arguments of pro-immigration people, and their desire for "virtually unlimited immigration." So yes, the position of pro-immigration people is relevant. Views on illegal migrants are relevant because if they don't care about limiting illegal immigration, they sure as heck don't want limit legal immigration. It's kind of telling that instead of responding with "that's not what we believe,"…

> My comment was based on the arguments of pro-immigration people, and their desire for "virtually unlimited immigration."

Nobody has done that in this subthread.

And, by the way, your claim was there is "virtually unlimited immigration", still waiting an argumentation about your claim.

>It's kind of telling that instead of responding with "that's not what we believe," the response has been sophistry and trying to deflect.

Yes, it is telling because it is what you have done in this thread, I have asked about your claim that there is virtually unlimited immigration right now and your answer have talking about hypothetical arguments from other people.

You don't have any proof and you only think other people wants it. So, I won't waste more time with your no-answers

Re: Brexit Britain Could Replace Migrants with Robots

#82

Post by rhino369 »

kefka wrote: post #64
strange_quark wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cashiers are not automate-able yet, at least not with current product design. Yes, yes I know there's that Amazon store and some other test store that tags every one of its products with RFID tags, but the self-checkout isn't automated, it's just making the customer be their own cashier.

Well, if the store isn't paying for it, and isn't discounting for working for the store, then yes it's "Free". People are just too stupid to see it that way, and are willing to be flesh-automation with no cost.

It's not no cost. It creates long wait times which can send customers elsewhere. I was a cashier in 2004 and I saw the introduction of the self checkout. The store ended up taking them back out this past year.

When you can pay a teenager 9 bucks an hour to do it much faster it's worth every penny.

These things work for walgreens but Costco and Aldes won't have them for a long while.

Re: Brexit Britain Could Replace Migrants with Robots

#83

Post by jdavis703 »

So not only is there worry over how automation will impact domestic income inequality, but also how it'll increase inequality between countries. In the future desperate citizens of poor nations can't even hope to immigrate to richer areas, if the rich countries just realize they can solve the immigration "problem" by using robots. Combined with a spike in protectionist governments in the west, does this mean we're likely to see more bloody economic wars?

Re: Brexit Britain Could Replace Migrants with Robots

#84

Post by golergka »

nkoren wrote: post #63
golergka wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's almost as if the system was designed to give UK citizens advantage over you.

I've founded two companies, employed many people, and brought in millions of pounds business to the UK. This is not a zero-sum game. None of this has been at the expense of a single UK citizen. The rules have not given UK citizens any advantage over me; they've merely penalised me. That's all.

> This is not a zero-sum game.

It's not. However, it's not always the opposite, either.

> The rules have not given UK citizens any advantage over me; they've merely penalised me.

Advantage is always relative.

Re: Brexit Britain Could Replace Migrants with Robots

#85

Post by kefka »

rhino369 wrote: post #82
kefka wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if the store isn't paying for it, and isn't discounting for working for the store, then yes it's "Free". People are just too stupid to see it that way, and are willing to be flesh-automation with no cost.

It's not no cost. It creates long wait times which can send customers elsewhere. I was a cashier in 2004 and I saw the introduction of the self checkout. The store ended up taking them back out this past year. When you can pay a teenager 9 bucks an hour to do it much faster it's worth every penny. These things work for walgreens but Costco and Aldes won't have them for a long while.

Indeed, I get the sentiment. But in South-Central Indiana (Bloomington), we see Krogers with self-checkouts.

How Krogers uses these, is that they only keep them open after 10p. And 1 clerk deals with 6 registers. Even if someone is being slow, the whole line moves faster.

And you don't have a choice. Marsh has 1 24 hour store here. And they have 1 clerk (no self checkout) so it's on the range of 10-20 minute lines. If you want something from Krogers at night, it's self checkout or go away.

Walmart has a weird strategy: self checkout is closed at night, and the center lane with the tobacco is always open no matter what. But I don't particularly like wally world. And they're further away than kroger.

Re: Brexit Britain Could Replace Migrants with Robots

#86

Post by dspillett »

harryf wrote: post #23
dspillett wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> qualifier " for low skilled jobs in the manufacturing sector" For most of the people whose main reason for voting for Brexit was immigration's effects on jobs, these are the jobs that they seem the immigrants as competition for. The theory is that the immigrants were willing to work for less so "stole" the menial, mind-numbing, often physical, & sometimes seasonal jobs. Having a number of such complainers in my fam…

> The theory is that the immigrants were willing to work for less so "stole" the menial, mind-numbing, often physical, & sometimes seasonal jobs. Except recent studies show that most EU migrants go for high skilled jobs and that the migrant impact on low skilled jobs is small - see below. > The positive impact of recent European migration to Britain is highlighted by the fact that the UK now attracts the highest numb…

> > The theory is that the immigrants were willing to work for less so "stole" the menial, mind-numbing, often physical, & sometimes seasonal jobs. > Except recent studies show that most EU migrants go for high skilled jobs and that the migrant impact on low skilled jobs is small - see below.

No studies to hand to back up my intuition, but looking at the balance of backgrounds in retail/cafes/restaurants (viewed from my position as a customer), and factory work (as someone who knows people who both work on and manage production lines) I find it hard to believe that immigration doesn't have a significant impact on those areas.

There is plenty of migration in my line of work (pretty technical, relatively well paid, significant experience needed) too of course. Healthcare is another sector that is likely to be affected by a reduction in incoming workers. But most of the people who cite immigration as a problem for their jobs are not, in my experience, generally qualified for any such technical/experienced roles.

Re: Brexit Britain Could Replace Migrants with Robots

#87

Post by TheGirondin »

Oletros wrote: post #81
TheGirondin wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My comment was based on the arguments of pro-immigration people, and their desire for "virtually unlimited immigration." So yes, the position of pro-immigration people is relevant. Views on illegal migrants are relevant because if they don't care about limiting illegal immigration, they sure as heck don't want limit legal immigration. It's kind of telling that instead of responding with "that's not what we believe,"…

> My comment was based on the arguments of pro-immigration people, and their desire for "virtually unlimited immigration." Nobody has done that in this subthread. And, by the way, your claim was there is "virtually unlimited immigration", still waiting an argumentation about your claim. >It's kind of telling that instead of responding with "that's not what we believe," the response has been sophistry and trying to de…

I addressed all of these points in my last comment, which you are apparently going to just ignore so you can try to deflect to something else.

Have a nice life.

Re: Brexit Britain Could Replace Migrants with Robots

#88

Post by SimonPStevens »

ghaff wrote: post #74
SimonPStevens wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tech doesn't have to replace the workers entirely, just improve their efficiency to the point that less humans are needed. Take supermarkets. What used to be 10 checkout assistants serving 30 customers per hour each for a total throughput of 300 customers per hour, can now become 20 self checkout machines serving 15 customers per hour each, with 2 retrained checkout assistants to oversee 10 machines each and hand…

The use of self-service in supermarkets is pretty patchy though. Once you get beyond barcoded items, it's a PITA. And it's not even a great experience for a cartful of barcoded items. Around where I live, other than a Walmart Superstore, there's not a single grocery store that uses self-service. One chain even put it in and then took it out. Personally, I'd probably go out of my way to avoid a chain with self-service…

> The use of self-service in supermarkets is pretty patchy though.

That's kinda my point. The user experience is actually worse for many users. And it certainly doesn't handle all edge cases. It handles one specific case (of a customer with just a small number of small barcoded items) kind of acceptably, but slower than a human would.

But it's still being used, and replacing staff by reducing the overall number of staff required despite not handling all situations very well at all.

And this is the same mistake people make all the time when thinking about job automation. They say things like "I'm OK, my job could never be automated because a robot couldn't handle all the complex tasks I do like handling a customer complaint" but what they forget is that customer complaints is only 2% of their job. 80% is repetitive tasks that can be automated. So yeah, OK, one robot won't replace one person. But 10 robots and 1 person can replace 5 people. So now you have to reapply for your new job of robot supervisor/edge case handler, alongside your 4 other colleagues. And only one of you is going to get that job.

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