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Brexit Britain Could Replace Migrants with Robots

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Re: Brexit Britain Could Replace Migrants with Robots

#71

Post by ajeet_dhaliwal »

mr_luc wrote: post #42
ajeet_dhaliwal wrote: post #28

The tech necessary to replace front line service workers is not there. If it was we'd all be buying one to use as a domestic servant/slave. The robots in the article are more assembly line types, what happens when someone spills a coffee in some place 'unexpected', customer wants a custom frappadappalappachino instead of the regular drink, or something needs to be moved out of reach some customer needs help in a mill…

I agree that things won't change enough in service jobs to matter by 2019. But as to this: > The tech necessary to replace front line service workers is not there. If it was we'd all be buying one ... what happens when ... some customer needs help in unexpected ways History does tell us that sometimes the market will throw away jobs that are becoming inconvenient to society, even if that means doing without the servi…

This is a really great point and something I had not considered. If everyone did it at the same time (like washing machines) it could indeed happen and make everyone more miserable, the human worker coffee shops become 'top end' like tailor made suits.

Re: Brexit Britain Could Replace Migrants with Robots

#72

Post by frobozz »

Chaebixi wrote: post #59
ajeet_dhaliwal wrote: post #28

The tech necessary to replace front line service workers is not there. If it was we'd all be buying one to use as a domestic servant/slave. The robots in the article are more assembly line types, what happens when someone spills a coffee in some place 'unexpected', customer wants a custom frappadappalappachino instead of the regular drink, or something needs to be moved out of reach some customer needs help in a mill…

> customer wants a custom frappadappalappachino instead of the regular drink Actually, I think that's something that would be relatively easily to automate. I've seen computerized ordering kiosks in European fast food restaurants. If you already have the robot, all you'd need to do is add a custom-item builder to the ordering interface. If the customer has a loyalty card or account, they could built it offline and sa…

Agreed. In fact, modern self-service soft drinks dispensers make it even more appealing and simple for the customer to get exactly what they want.

Faced with a waiter or a person behind a counter, there's no way I'd order glass of a lime-and-raspberry half-sugar half-diet cola, for a number of reasons: I'm not going to bother looking through a menu to see what's available; it's not explicitly on the menu, and I don't know how the system behind the counter works, or how much extra might be charged for such an odd order; I don't want to be "That Guy".

If I want something half-way between a macchiato and a cappuccino, but with the coffee poured on top of the milk, then I'd rather do that by pressing buttons on a machine, than ask a server who relays it to a coffee wallah who then looks quizzically at the instructions and asks the server for clarification who then passes the question on to me...

Re: Brexit Britain Could Replace Migrants with Robots

#73

Post by CM30 »

losteric wrote: post #48
vincnetas wrote: post #8

What will make local's immune from being replaced by robots. Why this should affect only immigrants?

Part of the justification for current anti-immigrant sentiment, and Brexit, boils down to "they took our jobs!" More accurately: Immigrants did jobs that citizens were unwilling to do for market rates. The market hasn't changed. Low-cost labor is still required, and robots will fill those roles. If anything, I'd be worried about a net reduction in jobs as a result of removing immigrants... smaller businesses that lac…

Part of me simply says "Good. If your business can't afford to pay a living wage to its employees and depends on exploiting poorer people to keep going... well perhaps it doesn't deserve to stay open."

I mean, it's clearly not a sustainable business for the number of employees you're hiring, in the same way a cheap coffee or meal made affordable by sweatshop or slave labour isn't a sustainable deal.

Either way, if you can't afford to hire someone at a decent wage (or in some cases, even minimum wage), then you don't hire them. You find a new business to get into or do as much as you can yourself or through contractors.

Re: Brexit Britain Could Replace Migrants with Robots

#74

Post by ghaff »

SimonPStevens wrote: post #67
ajeet_dhaliwal wrote: post #28

The tech necessary to replace front line service workers is not there. If it was we'd all be buying one to use as a domestic servant/slave. The robots in the article are more assembly line types, what happens when someone spills a coffee in some place 'unexpected', customer wants a custom frappadappalappachino instead of the regular drink, or something needs to be moved out of reach some customer needs help in a mill…

The tech doesn't have to replace the workers entirely, just improve their efficiency to the point that less humans are needed. Take supermarkets. What used to be 10 checkout assistants serving 30 customers per hour each for a total throughput of 300 customers per hour, can now become 20 self checkout machines serving 15 customers per hour each, with 2 retrained checkout assistants to oversee 10 machines each and hand…

The use of self-service in supermarkets is pretty patchy though. Once you get beyond barcoded items, it's a PITA. And it's not even a great experience for a cartful of barcoded items. Around where I live, other than a Walmart Superstore, there's not a single grocery store that uses self-service. One chain even put it in and then took it out.

Personally, I'd probably go out of my way to avoid a chain with self-service given the option.

Oddly, it's the big box home improvement stores that are the biggest self-service retail users around where I live. Even though many items you buy there are at equally bad for self-service as grocery stores.

Re: Brexit Britain Could Replace Migrants with Robots

#75

Post by patrickaljord »

tobltobs wrote: post #30
patrickaljord wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably. A question though, what would these locals and young be doing if migrants did those jobs?

Education, so that they could get one of those jobs which will be moved back to the EU now.

Current reality shows that these are unemployed, not getting an education.

Re: Brexit Britain Could Replace Migrants with Robots

#76

Post by Oletros »

TheGirondin wrote: post #69
Oletros wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then I will change with "Virtually unlimited?"

So what limits do you want want put on immigration? What steps would take to prevent people from coming a country like the US or the UK illegally? What would you do with people who are there illegally? If you like most pro-immigration people, my guesses are A) almost none (certainly no hard caps on numbers), B) almost nothing, C) rather than deport them, instead give them drivers licences and social welfare benefits.…

> So what limits do you want want put on immigration?

I didn't asked about limits or not, I asked you proof about your claim that NOW in the UK there is "virtually unlimited immigration". You have not answered.

> What steps would take to prevent people from coming a country like the US or the UK illegally?

What has to do illegal immigration with this thread? This article talks about LEGAL workers

> If you like most pro-immigration people,

You don't know what I think because I didn't write about my opinions about immigration. I just asked one claim done by you without any proof to back it.

> When you take everything into account, their position is that they want virtually no limits on immigration.

Opinion that has nothing to do with your actual claim.

Or perhaps is that you're confused and think that "European migrants" are illegal migrants

Re: Brexit Britain Could Replace Migrants with Robots

#77

Post by Neliquat »

frobozz wrote: post #72
Chaebixi wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> customer wants a custom frappadappalappachino instead of the regular drink Actually, I think that's something that would be relatively easily to automate. I've seen computerized ordering kiosks in European fast food restaurants. If you already have the robot, all you'd need to do is add a custom-item builder to the ordering interface. If the customer has a loyalty card or account, they could built it offline and sa…

Agreed. In fact, modern self-service soft drinks dispensers make it even more appealing and simple for the customer to get exactly what they want. Faced with a waiter or a person behind a counter, there's no way I'd order glass of a lime-and-raspberry half-sugar half-diet cola, for a number of reasons: I'm not going to bother looking through a menu to see what's available; it's not explicitly on the menu, and I don't…

Be that guy. Get what you want. Often, you just have to ask. Your fear of being that guy is holding you back. You only really become that guy when you are an ass when you cannot be accomidated, or knowingly interfere with their work.

This is just my dumb opinion, and I dont mind risking looking like that guy to share it.

Re: Brexit Britain Could Replace Migrants with Robots

#79

Post by mr_luc »

notahacker wrote: post #68
mr_luc wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that things won't change enough in service jobs to matter by 2019. But as to this: > The tech necessary to replace front line service workers is not there. If it was we'd all be buying one ... what happens when ... some customer needs help in unexpected ways History does tell us that sometimes the market will throw away jobs that are becoming inconvenient to society, even if that means doing without the servi…

> Now imagine a Starbucks with touchscreen-and-voice enabled ordering, no visible employees (maybe one employee, nominally a store manager, working the fleet of coffee machines behind the screens, and doing some light sweeping in the restaurant, etc) and a communal co-working space that more or less preserves the current experience, just minus the baristas. Then imagine that the notion that your coffee is "crafted" b…

Agree that brand is a finicky and powerful beast. And I picked Starbucks because it's the most ambitious example I could think of.

It will be a while before UX and polish of any automated (or mostly hands-off) storefront could compete favorably with our current servant-based systems.

But even in the case of ambitious examples, I think we'll get there. There are beloved brands that exist mostly as apps, which compete successfully with human-staffed storefronts. Unstaffed or mostly-automated physical storefronts haven't proven they can offer a quality experience yet when it comes to food and drink, but that could change; it's always possible that robotic attempts to date are the equivalent of hand-cranked washing machines.

Re: Brexit Britain Could Replace Migrants with Robots

#80

Post by TheGirondin »

Oletros wrote: post #76
TheGirondin wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what limits do you want want put on immigration? What steps would take to prevent people from coming a country like the US or the UK illegally? What would you do with people who are there illegally? If you like most pro-immigration people, my guesses are A) almost none (certainly no hard caps on numbers), B) almost nothing, C) rather than deport them, instead give them drivers licences and social welfare benefits.…

> So what limits do you want want put on immigration? I didn't asked about limits or not, I asked you proof about your claim that NOW in the UK there is "virtually unlimited immigration". You have not answered. > What steps would take to prevent people from coming a country like the US or the UK illegally? What has to do illegal immigration with this thread? This article talks about LEGAL workers > If you like most p…

My comment was based on the arguments of pro-immigration people, and their desire for "virtually unlimited immigration." So yes, the position of pro-immigration people is relevant. Views on illegal migrants are relevant because if they don't care about limiting illegal immigration, they sure as heck don't want limit legal immigration.

It's kind of telling that instead of responding with "that's not what we believe," the response has been sophistry and trying to deflect.

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