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DOJ Cautions Employers Seeking H-1B Visas Not to Discriminate Against US Workers

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Re: DOJ Cautions Employers Seeking H-1B Visas Not to Discriminate Against US Workers

#71

Post by kelnos »

jordanb wrote: post #52
cromwellian wrote: post #44

I'm concerned about the effect this will have on F-1 Visa holders, if they can't convert to H1-b, they'll take their graduate degree back to their home country which is a net negative for us. This seems to be throwing out the baby with the bath water, if you want to fix the body shop consulting firm issue, then target that. "Entry level programmer" is very broad, it could mean a guy with no experience who just gradua…

This is still predicated on the assumption that there's a STEM shortage right? Almost everyone I know who has a graduate degree in CS came here on a visa. The reason is because employers don't reward graduate degrees in CS with compensation commiserate with their costs. So US nationals make the rational decision to not pursue a graduate degree. But if you're a foreign national, getting a graduate degree from a US sch…

> Almost everyone I know who has a graduate degree in CS came here on a visa. The reason is because employers don't reward graduate degrees in CS with compensation commiserate with their costs.

I think the main reason for that is because the vast majority of software jobs do not even remotely require a graduate degree in CS.

A lot of great research into ML, data science, distributed systems, etc., is driven by people with graduate degrees, but that's still a very tiny part of the programmer-job pie.

Re: DOJ Cautions Employers Seeking H-1B Visas Not to Discriminate Against US Workers

#72

Post by aub3bhat »

tangocom wrote: post #38
techk wrote: post #19

No matter how you frame the issue, call it an abuse, or try to solve it, I don't think anything will change other than some minor adjustments. Jobs are not going to magically appear or wages rise. India/China has a huge supply of engineers across the board (good, bad, senior, junior etc.,). And US companies always want to maximize their profits. So increasing the bar on H-1B visas will increase the quality of H-1B's…

Protectionism does work. Just ask the Lawyers and the Airline pilots. The reason software engineers are not paid as well now is because we don't have a Bar association or Labor union to keep out the low rate foreign competition.

Lawyers and Pilots, hahhahahaha. I guess you are completely out of loop on unemployment among Lawyers. And Airline Pilots are even worse off. So no some magical unicorn union isn't going to fix massive oversupply of intelligent Chinese and Indians, if America tries another not directly named Chinese Exclusion Act (The White House just tried that with Muslim Ban), then maybe its Canada who will benefit.

Re: DOJ Cautions Employers Seeking H-1B Visas Not to Discriminate Against US Workers

#73

Post by gambiting »

doktrin wrote: post #70
tn135 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our entire company including founders are people on H1B. If USCIS harasses us we will move to Canada or some place else.

Being located in the US but staffed 100% from overseas sounds strange. Did you guys make a conscious decision to exclude US born workers? Moreover, please walk me through your "I'll take my ball and go to Canada" ultimatum : if you don't employ a single American, why should Americans care about this particular threat? Are your contributions to the local economy that significant?

Surely they pay taxes locally, no?

Re: DOJ Cautions Employers Seeking H-1B Visas Not to Discriminate Against US Workers

#74

Post by gambiting »

adrr wrote: post #55
KKKKkkkk1 wrote: post #27

For a few years, I worked at a US government joint that abused the visa system to reduce its labor costs. The junior positions were staffed 100% by foreign workers who were being paid 25% to 50% of market rates. The problem is that the US immigration system is rife with selective enforcement. Many rules are open to interpretation, and officers have full discretion as to how they interpret them. In this, the US is uni…

Easiest solution is stack rank all H1b applicants by salary and fill the quota with based on ranking. Top talent in theory should be making the most money so we wouldn't risk losing them.

Hmmm. I have a friend who has an extremely specific PhD and was offered a job in Atlanta, for a position that would be hard to fill otherwise as his expertise is quite unique.

So on one hand, you have a person with unique expertise, but on the other, he would be joining as a junior, so he would be paid a great salary - for that level. But he would be competing for visas with Seniors who will be paid more at other companies, purely because of their age/experience?

Re: DOJ Cautions Employers Seeking H-1B Visas Not to Discriminate Against US Workers

#76

Post by zerr »

rodionos wrote: post #69
mavelikara wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can search for a job with an employer who would be willing to sponsor an H1-B What is wrong in doing that?

It causes incremental demand for H1-B visas from H-4 dependents whose specialized skills were not sufficient to warrant an issuance of an H1-B visa in the first place. This could be happening at the expense of more qualified H1-B candidates without physical presence in the country, as well as at the expense of citizens and permanent residents.

> whose specialized skills were not sufficient to warrant an issuance of an H1-B visa in the first place

And how this changes if you apply for H1B while in US (on H-4)? Are the requirements softened?

Re: DOJ Cautions Employers Seeking H-1B Visas Not to Discriminate Against US Workers

#77

Post by guitarbill »

anarazel wrote: post #35
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A simple solution for the consulting companies would be a rule requiring all H-1B sponsors to have at least 51% of their domestic staff be US citizens. That would ruin the wacked out business model of the body shops and return to a fair playing field for Americans in their own country.

Not sure if that's sufficient, but I wanted to answer to your "Americans..." comment: This isn't just an issue for Americans, it's also bad for actually highly qualified foreigners and other companies. Because a few companies gobble up all the visas, the rest have to go through the lottery. Which actually makes it hard to hire highly qualified immigrants, because it takes agrees to see of you're lucky. I've been thro…

Couldn't agree more. If anything, a lottery system encourages spamming candidates whatever quality over carefully selecting high quality candidates.

Plus, nothing says "Welcome" than waiting several months for a decision in the visa purgatory. So that also discourages high quality applicants who have other choices.

Re: DOJ Cautions Employers Seeking H-1B Visas Not to Discriminate Against US Workers

#78

Post by tankerdude »

mavelikara wrote: post #16

Also, USCIS has announced plans to combat H-1B fraud [1]. They seem to provide two provisions with this: 1) An avenue [2] for members of the workforce to report H-1B abuse. People on H-1B are offered some protection against retaliation. 2) Targeted onsite visits at worksites of employers who have larger fraction of their employees on H-1Bs, and those who sent employees to other locations. Together, this seems to be a…

This is akin to having more IRS agents policing tax fraud.

Simplest way is to ensure H1Bs are at 90th percentile of the market for salary.

H1Bs are supposed to be for engineers that are very hard to fill so making their salaries high ensures that that gets met.

You really want them? Pay for them and be done.

Simple to enforce and simple to get the H1Bs for folks who really need them.

All birds killed with that stone except for the company's desire for cheaper labor.

Re: DOJ Cautions Employers Seeking H-1B Visas Not to Discriminate Against US Workers

#79

Post by dukeluke »

tn135 wrote: post #54
lifesucks1 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone posted this link. https://www.uscis.gov/working-united-states/temporary-worker... There are whole IT divisions where there is not a single US citizen or GC holder. Tell me how can one distinguish between projects where the whole project members are H1B holders. Do you expect anyone to complain? The whole thing feels like a april fools joke to me....

Our entire company including founders are people on H1B. If USCIS harasses us we will move to Canada or some place else.

Companies pull this kind of stuff, then wonder why there is a push back against globalization. Americans need to benefit from globalization, too! If most American work is displaced by foreigners, it really screws our society and economy, amplifying inequality to insane levels.

Re: DOJ Cautions Employers Seeking H-1B Visas Not to Discriminate Against US Workers

#80

Post by Panini_Jones »

l3m0ndr0p wrote: post #22

Many Financial Brick and Mortar, like JP Morgan Chase uses H1Bs quite heavily. Many of the job positing listed show this. H1Bs are used as a cheap source of labor and nothing more.

> H1Bs are used as a cheap source of labor and nothing more.

Really? Even at companies like Google and FB?

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