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Mexican Newspaper Shuts Down, Saying It Is Too Dangerous to Continue

nytimes.com

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Re: Mexican Newspaper Shuts Down, Saying It Is Too Dangerous to Continue

#131

Post by brooklynmarket »

jtmcmc wrote: post #97
gph wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>may things improve for you, though I really have no idea how that will happen. I think a good first step would be changing attitudes towards drug use. We should treat users as patients instead of criminals. And waging a 'war' against dealers and smugglers has only made them more violent and dangerous, while driving up prices and making those who survive even wealthier. There needs to be smarter policies.

legalizing drugs would cause the collapse of the cartels and help to end this violence.

And also the collapse of the government. They're totally vested in keeping drugs illegal. It's a profit center for them

Re: Mexican Newspaper Shuts Down, Saying It Is Too Dangerous to Continue

#132

Post by duncan_bayne »

jacquesm wrote: post #86
duncan_bayne wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem fairly free with your criticism of American free speech, considering _they_ didn't birth Mussolini, Hitler or Stalin.

I sincerely hope that you will not live to regret making this comment, also, if that's the level you wish to compare the United States with you're not setting the bar very high.

Sorry for the excessive snark.

What I meant was, I think the US obsession with freedom of speech is an important one, and helps society to challenge the ideas that underpin totalitarianism. I think the absence of an American Stalin, Hitler or Mussolini is in part a consequence of their historical attitude towards free speech.

This is the most chilling aspect of Trump's behaviour, in my opinion: his disregard for the importance of free speech.

Re: Mexican Newspaper Shuts Down, Saying It Is Too Dangerous to Continue

#133

Post by pdog »

_delirium wrote: post #110
telesilla wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My friends are thinkers and challengers of the system: it's for them I am more worried, that they can't speak freely. I could move to Condesa and live a protected life, but that's just colonialism (using my spending power to put a cocoon around me with Uber and private parties). That's not the México I'm interested in. I've also been mugged rather violently there anyway on Calle Amsterdam, (though no worse than Barce…

My very limited experience with Mexico City is that I'd treat it like many U.S. cities: it's fine, if you know which areas to avoid after dark, and which areas to avoid entirely. It is not like a safe European city center where you can go almost anywhere alone on foot at any time of day. But most U.S. cities don't fit that description either. And it's not at the other extreme that some people imagine, some kind of So…

> It is not like a safe European city center where you can go almost anywhere alone on foot at any time of day.

Which European city are you referring to? The major European cities (e.g., Paris, London, and Berlin) don't fit this description either.

Re: Mexican Newspaper Shuts Down, Saying It Is Too Dangerous to Continue

#134

Post by function_seven »

lazaroclapp wrote: post #91
function_seven wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You tell me what your model speech code would look like, and I'll show you how I could use it to shut your speech down within a decade.

Are you sure about that? I am usually a pretty strong free speech advocate, up to toeing the line of being a free speech absolutist at some points in my life (of the: "nuclear weapon blueprints posted online are just as valid speech as any other sequence of bits, information wants to be free!" variety). But I still think you can design speech codes that are not prone to slippery slope under any sane interpretation. I…

I’m pretty sure that whatever parent would come up with, I could shoot full of holes, yeah. Their statement was that some “opinions” (their scare quotes, not mine) are dangerous and should not be tolerated. This is far different than fighting words or other existing carve outs.

For example, antisemitism and homophobia are two concepts that the parent thinks should be banned. But that right away leads to contradictions. If I ask you a question, “Should orthodox rabbis marry gay couples?” your answer could be deemed as either antisemitic (“yes”), or homophobic(“no”). Your best bet is to stay silent on that question!

So, I do understand not wanting to allow directly threatening speech on a specific group. It’s just such a tricky thing to codify such a ban without inadvertently stifling freedom of thought and opinion. What you really do is hone the dog-whistling capabilities of those who would organize to commit violence.

Re: Mexican Newspaper Shuts Down, Saying It Is Too Dangerous to Continue

#135

Post by toomanybeersies »

mikeash wrote: post #107
hwillis wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are good arguments for border patrol but this is not one of them. These guns are legal in the US and all you have to do to get them into Mexico is load them on a catapult and drive out to the middle of nowhere, or load them in one of the hundreds of small boats that make the trip. It's trivial to find guns illegally coming into mexico from a boat that can cross oceans and nearly impossible for a boat you can ma…

Leaving immigration to the states would require internal border controls. This is not something most people want.

The EU manages to have immigration on a per-nation basis (for non-EU countries), without internal border controls.

Re: Mexican Newspaper Shuts Down, Saying It Is Too Dangerous to Continue

#136

Post by Baeocystin »

gph wrote: post #56
telesilla wrote: post #11

I truly love the country of México - I have spent a large periods of time there for the climate, as a place to work and have a wonderful life, away from the chills of winter. I often thought about making a permanent relocation, but this terror is too real and I found myself living in constant anxiety of my friends and colleagues being in danger, and the fear of speaking your mind weighs on you after a while. I am sad…

>may things improve for you, though I really have no idea how that will happen. I think a good first step would be changing attitudes towards drug use. We should treat users as patients instead of criminals. And waging a 'war' against dealers and smugglers has only made them more violent and dangerous, while driving up prices and making those who survive even wealthier. There needs to be smarter policies.

Has there been any discussion of the Portuguese model? Their decriminalization experiment has been running for more than a decade, and the results seem to be pretty stellar. I hope we can eventually get something similar going stateside.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal

Re: Mexican Newspaper Shuts Down, Saying It Is Too Dangerous to Continue

#137

Post by _delirium »

pdog wrote: post #133
_delirium wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My very limited experience with Mexico City is that I'd treat it like many U.S. cities: it's fine, if you know which areas to avoid after dark, and which areas to avoid entirely. It is not like a safe European city center where you can go almost anywhere alone on foot at any time of day. But most U.S. cities don't fit that description either. And it's not at the other extreme that some people imagine, some kind of So…

> It is not like a safe European city center where you can go almost anywhere alone on foot at any time of day. Which European city are you referring to? The major European cities (e.g., Paris, London, and Berlin) don't fit this description either.

When were you last in central London or Paris? It's been a long time since Limehouse or Montparnasse were dangerous to walk in at night.

Re: Mexican Newspaper Shuts Down, Saying It Is Too Dangerous to Continue

#138

Post by lazyant »

telesilla wrote: post #11

I truly love the country of México - I have spent a large periods of time there for the climate, as a place to work and have a wonderful life, away from the chills of winter. I often thought about making a permanent relocation, but this terror is too real and I found myself living in constant anxiety of my friends and colleagues being in danger, and the fear of speaking your mind weighs on you after a while. I am sad…

Places like Yucatan are safer than the US, other parts very dangerous https://i.redd.it/5nxmj0uau5gx.jpg

Re: Mexican Newspaper Shuts Down, Saying It Is Too Dangerous to Continue

#139

Post by _delirium »

homakov wrote: post #129
_delirium wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My very limited experience with Mexico City is that I'd treat it like many U.S. cities: it's fine, if you know which areas to avoid after dark, and which areas to avoid entirely. It is not like a safe European city center where you can go almost anywhere alone on foot at any time of day. But most U.S. cities don't fit that description either. And it's not at the other extreme that some people imagine, some kind of So…

Maybe I was lucky, but I never felt in danger in major US cities walking literally everywhere. While in D.F. I had some anxiety outside of central roads.

It's hard to give some objective analysis, but I don't personally feel safe walking alone at night in large areas of NYC, Baltimore, Chicago, Atlanta, Detroit, St Louis, Miami, etc.

Re: Mexican Newspaper Shuts Down, Saying It Is Too Dangerous to Continue

#140

Post by kbenson »

brilliantcode wrote: post #94
kbenson wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard that quote before, but I don't really know its pedigree. Do you have a reference? (I also imagine the lack of sourcing is why you got downvoted).

If anyone doubts the contents of the quoted text, they can copy paste it into Google and discover numerous websites pointing at it. That will guide you to the right source. Possibly someone downvoted it because they fall under the same establishment or an offspring of that 'Murica generation. edit: I don't understand the downvotes. This comment contains instructions on how to find the desired source of my original co…

> This comment contains instructions on how to find the desired source of my original comment which was actually published and publicized in printed media.

Then why is it so hard to include it yourself? It's poor form to make statements from sources and omit those sources. Unless you typed that from memory, you had one of those sources handy when you made the comment, so you could have included it easily, rather than make every person that read it have to determine whether they believed it as even worth researching to see if it is real or something you made up.

> I don't understand the downvotes.

> Possibly someone downvoted it because they fall under the same establishment or an offspring of that 'Murica generation.

> If you have trouble with Googling, I suggest restarting your computer.

People aren't denying anything. Perhaps your attitude is the cause of the downvotes. Regardless of why you were originally downvoted, imagining it might be because they aren't acting in good faith or are incapable of assessing your comment on its merit isn't exactly a useful way to move forward.

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