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Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value

bloomberg.com

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Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value

#391

Post by criley2 »

criley2 wrote: post #377
Judgmentality wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people just like owning cars. I live in San Francisco and don't currently own a car, but I want one. Perfect example where Uber fails - I can't take my dog anywhere. Different people have different values. Also I'm quite young, so I don't think age is a strict delineation.

"Some people just like owning cars." Yes I did point out that most Americans and many people are conditioned from birth to value car ownership, even when it's a poor financial decision. "Perfect example where Uber fails - I can't take my dog anywhere As I told the other guy: Stop predicting failure based on problems, put on your creator and builder hat, and solve the problem. Why not have pet friendly vehicles availa…

>"You seem very defensive. I was just pointing out that I don't own a car and live in the epicenter of the ride-sharing revolution, and I'd much rather go back to owning a car."

And I was just pointing out that your personal experiences with today's ride sharing aren't relevant to a hypothetical discussion of an unrelated future transport technology.

I'm defensive because you're continually derailing a thread about futuretech to list your personal experiences with todaytech. I don't get why you derail this conversation to make it emotional and personal, so I get defensive about the track of the conversation of solving tomorrow's problems. Stop taking it personally, think bigger! Solve a problem!

Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value

#392

Post by criley2 »

emodendroket wrote: post #389
criley2 wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Some people just like owning cars." Yes I did point out that most Americans and many people are conditioned from birth to value car ownership, even when it's a poor financial decision. "Perfect example where Uber fails - I can't take my dog anywhere As I told the other guy: Stop predicting failure based on problems, put on your creator and builder hat, and solve the problem. Why not have pet friendly vehicles availa…

If it's so easy to solve why don't you share the solution?

I did.

I literally did share a solution in this post, and the one before.

- Commoditize storage and transport it to you on demand

- Offer pet friendly cars

Boom. Solved.

As I also wrote: "I'm sure you could come up with a better solution if you tried."

Is this hackernews, where builders come to talk about exciting ways they're solving tomorrow's problems?

Am I on the wrong site?

Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value

#393

Post by andy_ppp »

LordHumungous wrote: post #353
andy_ppp wrote: post #90

I would agree with the market that Tesla has the potential to be far far larger than Ford should things go well. If they manage to get to 500000 cars and full automation within the next year, they'll be worth even more than their current market cap. Remember that Tesla have by far the best dataset for building self driving cars and this is going to give them a huge time to market and/or safety advantage over their co…

>If they launch an Uber clone as well (which they have implied they might) Lol. Yes, the second most unprofitable tech company in the world should clone the first most unprofitable tech company. Why not.

Because Uber's value is all based upon self driving cars, as I said in my comment.

Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value

#394

Post by bischofs »

sxates wrote: post #382
bischofs wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I think car companies should focus less on making cars... - Your first point is cars - there are a ton of evs for sale from many large companies and direct sale doesn't seem to sell more cars than indirect. - Tesla is partnering with battery companies just as GM does on the bolt and volt. Nothing special here as their battery business is pretty minuscule. - Again a niche market that compares to GMs after market…

1. Tesla's EVs are outselling everyone else combined, even with an average sale price that's double everyone else. 2. Tesla is partnered with Panasonic, but they're practically married with communal property. They haven't outsourced this, they've put billions into building a gigafactory. What part of "doubling global output of lithium batteries" is minuscule to you? 3. In 20 years, probably half the world's electrici…

1. Nope. Are you just pulling numbers from a hat? Nissan sold 14,000 leafs last year, add that to the 24,000 volts and the 8,000 i3s and you get more than the model S.

2. Im saying the current business is minuscule, if we looked at elons promises as gospel (which you apparently do) we would have had a model x three years ago. LGchem and Samsung SDI are more than capable to meet the demand of the current lithium battery market without panasonic.

3. Speculation

4. Tesla has a SAE level 1 system which is the same as my VW golfs adaptive cruise with lane assist. They sell the car with the "hardware" and you think they are done? -> " All we have to do is build the controls and software now!!" By this logic throwing a couple cameras on the car means it has "self-driving hardware".

Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value

#395

Post by Namrog84 »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #316
mcguire wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely! By 2027, all the vehicles on the road will be Teslas.

I don't think so, but by 2027 poor people won't be able to afford to drive anything other than a Tesla. The per mile costs for ICE will dwarf electric. The per mile costs of car ownership will dwarf autonomous mobility services. And Tesla will own the biggest battery supply chain in the world, with the best economy of scale. Rich people will still buy classic cars and Germans will still buy ICE BMWs. The vast majorit…

I've never seen the acronym ICE used before. Internal combustion engine. I probably just don't know the correct lingo more commonly used in this context and comparison.

Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value

#396

Post by iamacynic »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #362
iamacynic wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ford doesn't have any good ideas for the future, they are too busy with the here and now according to who? your average HN reader who basically hates cars? yeah, sure. the guy who hates cars is bearish on ford, shocking. what about all the people buying raptors and gt350s and fgts and fists and fosts, hand over fist? do you even know what i'm talking about? do these insanely popular cars even register on your radar…

I just bought an Acura ILX this year and I really like it (despite the reviews that it is just a luxury Civic), and I never even considered buying a Tesla. People misunderstand post car like post PC: it doesn't mean the market is going away, but merely that it is no longer growing . Therefore, WYSIWIG on earnings, because they aren't going to change dramatically. Ya, Ford might have record earnings that are slightly…

http://www.businessinsider.com/2016-was-a-record-breaking-ye...

india and africa will be china in 20 years. this is the market that tesla is fighting for a fraction of, not the other way around. you're out of your mind.

people like cars. people will spend an irrational amount of money on their cars. they don't give a shit if it pollutes, or kills people, or doesn't because it drives itself sometimes. the trends show this, decade after decade. guess what? teslas pollute also. how many tons of CO2 was emitted extracting all of the rare earths and other super toxic shit that makes a tesla?

i'm sure tesla will be super successful. the rest of the brands aren't going anywhere either. and toyota was the first tesla. look at the prius figures. someone will do it again with electric cars. it won't just be tesla. you can't be serious if you think that.

Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value

#398

Post by hackuser »

paulpauper wrote: post #270
hackuser wrote: post #237

Often discussed outside HN, but almost never heard here: Many are investing in his relationship with President Trump. At least two major investment banks [0][1][2] advised their clients of it and many other observers and investors think so too. [3][4] Again, outside HN it's not an uncommon idea; just search a news aggregator for "musk trump". EDIT: It's a very serious problem if we lose free market competition, and i…

Tech stocks such as Amazon, Tesla, Facebook, and Google keep going up. ..so much for the myth that Trump is bad for tech. Trump wants the tech community and these tech companies to succeed, as they are American capitalist success stories.

I don't see much support for these claims. He's been in office for two months, so we lack any real data and can't make claims about his impact. Almost certainly, the prior government (President and Congress) has much more impact on current conditions. For example, consider this point in Obama's Presidency, when the Great Recession had begun a couple months before he was elected; conditions on April 3, good or ill, were mostly the responsibility of his predecessor.

The claims about his motives and thinking are speculative; it would be hard to find evidence of them. Even the things he says about himself often turn out to be unreliable. Certainly we can speculate on many other motives and interests, but I don't think that's useful.

Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value

#399

Post by kpil »

username223 wrote: post #300
erikpukinskis wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are so many car makers, there is no monopole they could get. Same for solar and batteries. The automobile industry will contract as we move from individual ownership to mobility. But along with that transition some manufacturers will keep up and others will not. Tesla is hoping to be one of the winners, taking perhaps 25% of the mobility market as the car buying market dries up. Tesla's valuation is also base…

> The automobile industry will contract as we move from individual ownership to mobility. What does this even mean? People like to leave stuff in their cars (e.g. mug, gym bag). They like them to be at their preferred level of cleanliness or disorder. Some even use them as a means of personal expression. If "mobility" were so desirable, ZipCar would have taken off 10 years ago. The "mobility" market will be about the…

Exactly.

Maybe poor people will take the robocab from hell, with sick on the floor. Most people will not.

Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value

#400

Post by Tenhundfeld »

moftz wrote: post #372
bluGill wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I like knowing that there are extra diapers and a change of clothing for each kid in my car should I need them. I carry enough in to cover my current needs, but as anyone with kids known sometimes that isn't enough. I know many people who keep golf clubs in their car because sometimes a salesman is looking to round out a 4-some. I like going to walmart/lowes... over lunch and leaving my treasures in my car.…

The car sharing won't cover everyone's needs and some people will stick to keeping their own car. I'd imagine people living in urban areas are more likely to use a car sharing service since it's uneconomical to own a car in most cities. I'd imagine the suburbs will be a mix of sharing and ownership. I can imagine a family having a car they keep for weekends or whenever the parents and kids need to go somewhere but th…

I think you're exactly right. Once cars can drive themselves to destinations, it becomes so much easier to get by with one dedicated family car, supplemented with car sharing services.

For example: Mom takes service to work, possibly carpooling. Dad takes uses family car to drop off kids and goes to work. Car drives itself to mom's work for her to use to pick up kids and commute home. Dad takes service home. Or whatever. The point is kids can always be in the car with the extra diapers, with safety features parents want, etc.

The other part of this that people ignore is that a car sharing service could open up a lot of flexibility. For example, maybe our dedicated family car is just a sedan, but on this particular weekend with the grandparents in town, we can use the car sharing service to get a minivan and have everyone ride together. Or I want to pick up a piece of furniture and request a truck from the service. Or it's my anniversary, and I can request a luxury sedan to drive us to the restaurant for a touch of opulence. I'm sure there are many other examples people can think of.

Like you say, car sharing won't cover everyone's need, especially at first, but eventually, the big players in the space will have enough sophistication to cover many cases, especially for a second car.

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