I think this is mostly undervaluation of Ford. 45B$ marketcap is quite low for that kind of revenue, profits and assets. I mean 12B$ in free cash flow! How do analyst even evaluate car companies?
Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value
171–180 of 604 posts
Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
If they can properly pivot into the electric car market, a lot. Ford has all the infrastructure that Tesla is attempting to build now (aside from the batteries, but that is something that Ford could easily partner with another manufacture to get). They know how to mass produce cars (granted right now, ICE cars). That's not an easy feat. They have a large manufacturing and maintenance base that, frankly, Tesla can't r…
I highly recommend Wired's article about GM's long-term bet in developing the Bolt. It talks about many ways that developing an electric car is not just a matter of adding batteries to your existing expertise in car manufacturing. e.g.: > Nearly everything changes when you opt for a fundamentally different power train, so GM’s greatest advantage—more than a century of experience building cars—was all but moot. Car st…
Is there an echo in here?
Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value
#173Earlier quoted context omitted.
Aside from batteries, supercharger network, and any true desire to actually build nice electric cars. I drove an electric Ford Focus for 2 years, and it was an absolute terrible afterthought of an electric car. It was downright dangerous on wet surfaces with front wheel drive and batteries in the rear, not to mention the horrendous user experience that is Ford Sync. I drive a Tesla now and couldn't be happier.
Aside from the safety statements, you're comparing a ~$35K car to a $90k+ luxury car? What about a Bolt?
My point is I don't think Ford is even remotely taking electric vehicles seriously. With a little better engineering the Focus electric could have been a decent $35k electric car.
Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value
#174My prediction has always been that all traditional car manufacturers will jump into the market with gusto at the next inflection point in battery technology. The current state of the art battery technology for vehicles is heavy and has less than desirable energy density. The minute a new technology can deliver twice the energy density at the same or lower weight and lower cost most established car manufacturers will…
New battery tech takes a long time to being to market. Once an innovation is shown to be viable in a lab, there's a long gauntlet of stress tests to run--different operating loads under different environmental conditions. There's no market surprise to be had that's going to catch your competitors off-guard.
> Electric cars are very easy to build when compared to IC cars.
As I commented above, I recommend reading about the development of the Volt and Bolt at GM. They had a huge learning curve:
> Nearly everything changes when you opt for a fundamentally different power train, so GM’s greatest advantage—more than a century of experience building cars—was all but moot.
https://www.wired.com/2016/01/gm-electric-car-chevy-bolt-mar...
Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value
#175Earlier quoted context omitted.
If they can properly pivot into the electric car market, a lot. Ford has all the infrastructure that Tesla is attempting to build now (aside from the batteries, but that is something that Ford could easily partner with another manufacture to get). They know how to mass produce cars (granted right now, ICE cars). That's not an easy feat. They have a large manufacturing and maintenance base that, frankly, Tesla can't r…
I highly recommend Wired's article about GM's long-term bet in developing the Bolt. It talks about many ways that developing an electric car is not just a matter of adding batteries to your existing expertise in car manufacturing. e.g.: > Nearly everything changes when you opt for a fundamentally different power train, so GM’s greatest advantage—more than a century of experience building cars—was all but moot. Car st…
Though there is more to a card than just the power train. Maybe that explains some of the quality issues Tesla is having with non power train parts such as doors, leaky roofs, etc.
Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value
#176Wasn't overvaluing the potential of newer companies over established institutions with significant holdings one of the hallmarks of .com bubble ridiculousness? I'm not particularly knowledgeable about finance and economics– if someone that is knowledgeable has some insight, I'd love to hear it.
Totally. Just look at the ridiculous valuations here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot-com_bubble#List_of_compani... On the other hand, there were some major successes as well. Amazon got its start in the bubble and is now gigantic. eBay is doing great. So is PayPal (which is relevant here, since without PayPal we wouldn't have Tesla). Sometimes these ridiculous valuations are completely unjustified, but sometimes t…
Cherry picking a piece or two from your link.
>Books-a-Million - Saw its stock
>VA Linux - .... They set the record for largest first-day IPO price gain; after the price was set at $30/share, it ended the first day of trading at $239.25/share, a 698% gain (9 December 1999)
I don't think we are quite in the situation where valuations are based on updated websites. Nowadays it seems like monthly active users drives valuations which when your revenue is ad based, is a smart metric. In Tesla's case, they are actually shipping cars.
Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value
#177Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Ford doesn't have any growth potential Word? https://seekingalpha.com/article/4031938-ford-potential-grow
That link has no real info on their growth potential, it's just one analyst saying that it has some with no follow up.
the parent has provided no citation on his claim of no growth potential. my source at least provides qualitative reasons why Ford has seen growth in the 2016 fiscal year, reasons which are clearly overlooked by parent. Not many people are aware of Ford's big sell on Mobility Services - it certainly is not as exciting as Electric cars that have a "Ludicrous Speed" button. Full disclosure, I'm a fan of both companies.
Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value
#178Earlier quoted context omitted.
This time it's different! This time bubbly companies with no earnings and tons of debt will create a new paradigm! Lol
It might very well be overprices (I sold because I think it is) but they got $7B in revenue in 2016 which is hardly no earnings. They make money on every car they sell so it would be pretty straightforward for them to decide to become profitable at the expense of growth and R&D. Now, their stock price assumes they're going to conquer the world rather than settle down to become a profitable small car manufacturer and…
Revenue is nice, but earnings are all that matters when you have debts to pay. Just look over to the recently IPOed Snap, Inc. for a company with less revenue and more eyeballs!
Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
I highly recommend Wired's article about GM's long-term bet in developing the Bolt. It talks about many ways that developing an electric car is not just a matter of adding batteries to your existing expertise in car manufacturing. e.g.: > Nearly everything changes when you opt for a fundamentally different power train, so GM’s greatest advantage—more than a century of experience building cars—was all but moot. Car st…
Though there is more to a card than just the power train. Maybe that explains some of the quality issues Tesla is having with non power train parts such as doors, leaky roofs, etc.
That's an interesting thing to notice. Most of their issue do seem to be more car related than drive terrain. Guess that goes to my point though, being a car manufacturer is much more than making the car.
Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
What is this based on? Ford has had record profits over the past few years and has continually improved their vehicles and manufacturing processes, including remaking two assembly plants to make aluminum body F 150s. They also invested a billion dollars in Arvo AI and are making aggressive moves into self driving technology.
An aluminum body is exactly the kind of iteration that was being talked about. It is neat, but its not and all new drive train on a totally different tech. Aluminium is a pretty well understood material, while self driving cars are virgin territory. Tesla is making larger swings and potentially accepting larger risk. Ford is... iterating.
What innovation is Tesla making? Electric cars are not new. In fact the first production car to reach 60mph back in the day was electric. Aluminum in a production car is a lot more innovative that an electric car. (li batteries in a production car though is innovative)