Ford's F-150 truck line is a fortune 50 company by itself. Two factories. It's kind of insane.
And yet the rest of Ford's lineup is a snoozefest, even the Mustang.
Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value
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Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
Investors invest based on promise of future value. How much is Ford expected to grow?
If they can properly pivot into the electric car market, a lot. Ford has all the infrastructure that Tesla is attempting to build now (aside from the batteries, but that is something that Ford could easily partner with another manufacture to get). They know how to mass produce cars (granted right now, ICE cars). That's not an easy feat. They have a large manufacturing and maintenance base that, frankly, Tesla can't r…
The piece of the puzzle that Ford doesn't currently have is charging stations.
Tesla building its supercharger network was a brilliant move because it means that Teslas are comparable to most petrol-fuel vehicles (as far as where you can go), and everybody else isn't.
If I buy a Ford, can I drive it to see my family in Northern Minnesota[1]? Because I know that I can take a tesla.
That's a really big deal.
I know there are 3rd parties in the US trying to compete with tesla's superchargers (a very close friend of mine was an engineer at probably the largest one until they went bankrupt), but as far as I can tell they're nowhere close to Tesla.
[1]Originally I said North Dakota, but it looks like even Tesla doesn't have chargers there yet. BOO! Well luckily I have plenty of family in Northern Minnesota too!
Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value
#43Wasn't overvaluing the potential of newer companies over established institutions with significant holdings one of the hallmarks of .com bubble ridiculousness? I'm not particularly knowledgeable about finance and economics– if someone that is knowledgeable has some insight, I'd love to hear it.
Totally. Just look at the ridiculous valuations here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot-com_bubble#List_of_compani...
On the other hand, there were some major successes as well. Amazon got its start in the bubble and is now gigantic. eBay is doing great. So is PayPal (which is relevant here, since without PayPal we wouldn't have Tesla).
Sometimes these ridiculous valuations are completely unjustified, but sometimes they do come true. Figuring out which is which ahead of time is, well, hard.
Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value
#44Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value
#45Interesting, but market cap isn’t everything - FTA: "While Tesla’s market capitalization has swelled in size, Ford still overshadows the Palo Alto, California-based company in most other financial metrics. Over the last five years, Ford has posted net income totaling $26 billion, while Tesla has lost $2.3 billion. Last year, Ford had annual revenue of $151.8 billion compared with Tesla’s $7 billion. And when it comes…
> And when it comes to car sales, Tesla sold 40,697 vehicles in the U.S. last year, according to researcher IHS Markit. Ford sells that many F-Series trucks in the U.S. about every three weeks." How much stationary energy storage did Ford sell last year? "Tesla CTO: our energy storage is growing as fast as we can humanly scale it [Gallery of new Powerpack station]" https://electrek.co/2017/01/30/tesla-cto-energy-stor…
This time it's different! This time bubbly companies with no earnings and tons of debt will create a new paradigm! Lol
Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value
#46Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This is why Ford is unlikely to succeed at pivoting into the electric car market. The power and pull inside their company doesn't want them to. It will take superhuman leadership to overcome that force.
That makes no sense. Companies seek to be viable in the future. If Ford or GM feel that an electric car is on the horizon and that car will eat their (ICE) lunch, they will pivot. By your logic Tesla would have been locked out of the VC/investment market due to Big Oil. Money flows like water.
> Companies seek to be viable in the future. If Ford or GM feel that an electric car is on the horizon and that car will eat their (ICE) lunch, they will pivot.
I guess you could say the same for Kodak, Blockbuster, and Borders?
“The reason is that good management itself was the root cause. Managers played the game the way it was supposed to be played. The very decision-making and resource-allocation processes that are key to the success of established companies are the very processes that reject disruptive technologies: listening carefully to customers; tracking competitors’ actions carefully; and investing resources to design and build higher-performance, higher-quality products that will yield greater profit. These are the reasons why great firms stumbled or failed when confronted with disruptive technological change.”[0]
[0] - https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/1468535-the-innovator-...
Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value
#48Interesting, but market cap isn’t everything - FTA: "While Tesla’s market capitalization has swelled in size, Ford still overshadows the Palo Alto, California-based company in most other financial metrics. Over the last five years, Ford has posted net income totaling $26 billion, while Tesla has lost $2.3 billion. Last year, Ford had annual revenue of $151.8 billion compared with Tesla’s $7 billion. And when it comes…
The market makes mistakes over value all of the time.
Look at the sad tale of post-bankruptcy Kmart, and how they used hype, valuation and newly available credit to gobble up Sears. Predicable trainwreck ensued.
Tesla is alike and different. They have an amazing management team, Apple-like religious fervor/hype machine, but a marginal product category. Their continued growth is only possible as long as they can convince people that they aren't a commodity like any of the 50 other car companies.
Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value
#49Interesting, but market cap isn’t everything - FTA: "While Tesla’s market capitalization has swelled in size, Ford still overshadows the Palo Alto, California-based company in most other financial metrics. Over the last five years, Ford has posted net income totaling $26 billion, while Tesla has lost $2.3 billion. Last year, Ford had annual revenue of $151.8 billion compared with Tesla’s $7 billion. And when it comes…
> And when it comes to car sales, Tesla sold 40,697 vehicles in the U.S. last year, according to researcher IHS Markit. Ford sells that many F-Series trucks in the U.S. about every three weeks." How much stationary energy storage did Ford sell last year? "Tesla CTO: our energy storage is growing as fast as we can humanly scale it [Gallery of new Powerpack station]" https://electrek.co/2017/01/30/tesla-cto-energy-stor…
I don't know. How much money does TSLA make selling stationary energy storage?