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Brexit Britain Could Replace Migrants with Robots

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Re: Brexit Britain Could Replace Migrants with Robots

#61

Post by hacker_9 »

strange_quark wrote: post #56
kefka wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or extra BIG ASS FRIES... (Carl's Jr from Idiocracy) ObOnTopic: Cashiers are doing a very automatable job.. Like, it's done already to good effect. And if you do like our Krogers does at night, you dont have a choice to not use automation. The harder thing is mechanics and QC for food production. But with cheaper motors and actuators, makes more complicated food automation cheaper, easier, and higher quality than hum…

Cashiers are not automate-able yet, at least not with current product design. Yes, yes I know there's that Amazon store and some other test store that tags every one of its products with RFID tags, but the self-checkout isn't automated, it's just making the customer be their own cashier.

This is a good example of changing the layout to suit the technology though. And I see the Amazon store as taking the next step and applying the technology in an even more convenient way. The tech is still relatively new, and it takes a while to filter down to the day to day, as they have to measure user impact and so on.

Re: Brexit Britain Could Replace Migrants with Robots

#62

Post by bjelkeman-again »

Kadin wrote: post #27
vincnetas wrote: post #8

What will make local's immune from being replaced by robots. Why this should affect only immigrants?

When it starts affecting people who vote, they'll start to push back and you'll get either Keynesian economic stimulus (we'll pay you to dig a hole and fill it back in again), or regulation that makes automation more difficult (e.g. French-style job protections). Put in a policy saying that anyone whose job gets eliminated or reduced as the result of automation is eligible for half-pay and full pension benefits until…

The the UK really could do with some infrastructure investments [2013,2016] (dig the holes, don't fill em in again). I hope they use that Keynesian opportunity wisely, but I am afraid they won't. Having lived in the UK for a long time I then would despair at the crappy infrastructure compared to other norther European countries.

2016: http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21693936-government-tr... 2013: http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21573129-why-britain-d...

Re: Brexit Britain Could Replace Migrants with Robots

#63

Post by nkoren »

golergka wrote: post #37
nkoren wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but: 1.) This doesn't help startups -- only large companies that can afford to go through the expensive and laborious visa-permit process. 2.) As a foreign worker, since your residency depends on employment, you're in a far worse bargaining position vis-a-vis salaries, so this depresses worker wages, however much the government tries to enforce the requirement that foreign workers are paid at prevailing wages. 3…

It's almost as if the system was designed to give UK citizens advantage over you.

I've founded two companies, employed many people, and brought in millions of pounds business to the UK. This is not a zero-sum game. None of this has been at the expense of a single UK citizen. The rules have not given UK citizens any advantage over me; they've merely penalised me. That's all.

Re: Brexit Britain Could Replace Migrants with Robots

#64

Post by kefka »

strange_quark wrote: post #56
kefka wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or extra BIG ASS FRIES... (Carl's Jr from Idiocracy) ObOnTopic: Cashiers are doing a very automatable job.. Like, it's done already to good effect. And if you do like our Krogers does at night, you dont have a choice to not use automation. The harder thing is mechanics and QC for food production. But with cheaper motors and actuators, makes more complicated food automation cheaper, easier, and higher quality than hum…

Cashiers are not automate-able yet, at least not with current product design. Yes, yes I know there's that Amazon store and some other test store that tags every one of its products with RFID tags, but the self-checkout isn't automated, it's just making the customer be their own cashier.

Well, if the store isn't paying for it, and isn't discounting for working for the store, then yes it's "Free".

People are just too stupid to see it that way, and are willing to be flesh-automation with no cost.

Re: Brexit Britain Could Replace Migrants with Robots

#65

Post by clubm8 »

badgers wrote: post #57
mr_luc wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that things won't change enough in service jobs to matter by 2019. But as to this: > The tech necessary to replace front line service workers is not there. If it was we'd all be buying one ... what happens when ... some customer needs help in unexpected ways History does tell us that sometimes the market will throw away jobs that are becoming inconvenient to society, even if that means doing without the servi…

> Now imagine a Starbucks with touchscreen-and-voice enabled ordering, no visible employees (maybe one employee, nominally a store manager, working the fleet of coffee machines behind the screens, and doing some light sweeping in the restaurant, etc) and a communal co-working space that more or less preserves the current experience, just minus the baristas. We are already almost there. We have coffee vending machines…

I think we won't see full automation, but a drastic reduction in the number of people required to run a store.

For example, I went into an American fast food restaurant in Amsterdam once. Orders were made on a touch screen, you get a number, then someone at the counter hands you your order.

They still have kitchen staff, but instead of having 5+ humans taking orders you have 5+ kiosks and one person calling numbers.

Re: Brexit Britain Could Replace Migrants with Robots

#66

Post by Firadeoclus »

losteric wrote: post #48
vincnetas wrote: post #8

What will make local's immune from being replaced by robots. Why this should affect only immigrants?

Part of the justification for current anti-immigrant sentiment, and Brexit, boils down to "they took our jobs!" More accurately: Immigrants did jobs that citizens were unwilling to do for market rates. The market hasn't changed. Low-cost labor is still required, and robots will fill those roles. If anything, I'd be worried about a net reduction in jobs as a result of removing immigrants... smaller businesses that lac…

If the supply of labour changes because potential immigrants stay away then the market has certainly changed. Market rates are not fixed.

Re: Brexit Britain Could Replace Migrants with Robots

#67

Post by SimonPStevens »

ajeet_dhaliwal wrote: post #28

The tech necessary to replace front line service workers is not there. If it was we'd all be buying one to use as a domestic servant/slave. The robots in the article are more assembly line types, what happens when someone spills a coffee in some place 'unexpected', customer wants a custom frappadappalappachino instead of the regular drink, or something needs to be moved out of reach some customer needs help in a mill…

The tech doesn't have to replace the workers entirely, just improve their efficiency to the point that less humans are needed.

Take supermarkets. What used to be 10 checkout assistants serving 30 customers per hour each for a total throughput of 300 customers per hour, can now become 20 self checkout machines serving 15 customers per hour each, with 2 retrained checkout assistants to oversee 10 machines each and handle the edge cases. Same overall throughput. Each individual customers experience gets slightly worse (perhaps, although maybe the longer checkout time is offset by shorter queues?), but throughput stays the same, and staffing is reduced significantly. I'm seeing this right now in every large supermarket, and even a lot of smaller corner shop type ones.

There's a whole range of service jobs that are vulnerable to this kind of 80% efficiency improvement that will drastically reduce the levels of staff needed. Restaurant wait staff can be 80% replaced by self ordering via app or tablet. Bar staff, coffee shop staff (you can already preorder Starbucks and pay via the app, the human just makes the drinks), fast food staff (ever seen an express lane), all the same, a machine could make each staff member able to handle many times more customers but automating only the most repetitive parts leaving the human to just handle the edge cases.

They aren't talking about replacing all workers, just some of them. "The $35,000 robot can boost the number of items picked by a worker by 200 percent to 500 percent, Welty said, and six employees can handle work normally done by 20 to 25."

Re: Brexit Britain Could Replace Migrants with Robots

#68

Post by notahacker »

mr_luc wrote: post #42
ajeet_dhaliwal wrote: post #28

The tech necessary to replace front line service workers is not there. If it was we'd all be buying one to use as a domestic servant/slave. The robots in the article are more assembly line types, what happens when someone spills a coffee in some place 'unexpected', customer wants a custom frappadappalappachino instead of the regular drink, or something needs to be moved out of reach some customer needs help in a mill…

I agree that things won't change enough in service jobs to matter by 2019. But as to this: > The tech necessary to replace front line service workers is not there. If it was we'd all be buying one ... what happens when ... some customer needs help in unexpected ways History does tell us that sometimes the market will throw away jobs that are becoming inconvenient to society, even if that means doing without the servi…

> Now imagine a Starbucks with touchscreen-and-voice enabled ordering, no visible employees (maybe one employee, nominally a store manager, working the fleet of coffee machines behind the screens, and doing some light sweeping in the restaurant, etc) and a communal co-working space that more or less preserves the current experience, just minus the baristas.

Then imagine that the notion that your coffee is "crafted" by a "barista"[1] is part of the brand that distinguishes their coffee from my reasonably adequate free office coffee machine, and the barista costs two cups of coffee and a muffin per hour, and makes a point of asking everyone in line if they'd like anything else with that, and suddenly the savings from touchscreen and voice enabled ordering look less massive.

Now that's a fashion that could change, just like most rich people who could comfortably afford someone to polish their fireplaces and silverware every morning and doff their cap to guests nowadays would think such an idea unthinkably pretentious rather than the hallmark of a respectable house, and many of them have learned to actually enjoy cooking. After all, some people actually prefer impersonal service from a kiosk when buying tickets or packed food these days; more if it offers a better queuing system. But the economics are more complex than simple staff minimisation, otherwise the Automat would have killed the fast food industry rather than vice versa. Let's face it, 90% of these venues providing service jobs wouldn't exist if people were a little more willing to sacrifice perceived food quality/image/freshness for cheaper food and beverages

[1]Yes, of course it's a teenager pressing a button. But brand image is silly like that.

Re: Brexit Britain Could Replace Migrants with Robots

#69

Post by TheGirondin »

Oletros wrote: post #47
TheGirondin wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I said "virtually unlimited." Try not deliberately taking me out context next time.

Then I will change with "Virtually unlimited?"

So what limits do you want want put on immigration? What steps would take to prevent people from coming a country like the US or the UK illegally? What would you do with people who are there illegally?

If you like most pro-immigration people, my guesses are A) almost none (certainly no hard caps on numbers), B) almost nothing, C) rather than deport them, instead give them drivers licences and social welfare benefits.

When you take everything into account, their position is that they want virtually no limits on immigration.

Re: Brexit Britain Could Replace Migrants with Robots

#70

Post by s_kilk »

01000001 wrote: post #43
lallysingh wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or basic income.

Get rid of the whole array of benefits entirely, and give people a universal income that is enough to live on. Now, you can work if you want more money, or you can do something with your life that matters. Question is, how many people would just sit on their arses watching JK?

> Question is, how many people would just sit on their arses watching JK?

The people who are already two decades into a Jeremy Kyle binge-watch will likely not change their behaviour even under a UBI scheme, but at least their kids would have a chance to do something with themselves rather than continue the generational unemployment.

I think it's important for us t acknowledge that UBI won't solve every existing problem, and nor should it, but it could set up the coming generations for a much more productive and happier world.

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