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Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

theatlantic.com

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Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#101

Post by problems »

accountface wrote: post #98
problems wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate this attitude of "blame everything on the trolls". You can't use your real name on the internet because using your real name on the internet is basically asking for trouble. You have to defend yourself in the same way you have to look at ads and read media critically and don't believe everything someone says on the phone or in the mail. It's really nothing new, it's just on the internet this time. Scamming and…

I had to take down the website for my business and can only accept brick & mortar transactions because of trolls... but sure I guess you can win at your commenting game by claiming everything is shit. I've been running a business with multiple locations for 10 years and I've never had a problem more serious than trolls on the internet doxxing me.

See, this is the problem. Don't blame it on "trolls", analyze where you screwed up and how you could have defended yourself better so you know what to do next time. Then open up shop under a different alias.

If you're not vigilant about your own security and safety, no one else will do it for you. Take responsibility for your own actions.

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#102

Post by bigtimeidiot »

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #73
jknoepfler wrote: post #67

I don't understand this article at all. I participate in two large professional forums (one for poker, one for development). The professionals are winning the internet there. There are dedicated subforums for trolls and random bs, which are pretty funny sometimes, but serve as an outlet for the garbage. I browse hacker news... It is what it is, I'm happy with it as a content sharing platform. My biggest gripe is the…

You're in the top 1% or 0.1% of filtering for quality, IMO. Go spend some "quality time" on /r/the_donald for a more typical experience.

>Go spend some "quality time" on /r/the_donald for a more typical experience.

/the_donald has almost 400k subscribers. It is what it is. Do you assume these people are stupid, or do their beliefs and interests (and sense of humour) differ from yours?

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#103

Post by koolba »

return0 wrote: post #38

If you give people a big wall and free spray paint, of course they 'll fill it with dicks. Unlike real life, there is nobody to paint over them. Trolling is a natural part of the internet, its the price for having relative freedom, i dont have a problem with it. If that puts off people who don't have the capacity to tune it out, all the better.

> Unlike real life, there is nobody to paint over them.

In the real world having your tagging painted over is one of the saddest feelings. I wonder if there's a way to digitize that sensation but I think people are desensitized to things being deleted. It would have to be beyond that.

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#104

Post by aantix »

jknoepfler wrote: post #67

I don't understand this article at all. I participate in two large professional forums (one for poker, one for development). The professionals are winning the internet there. There are dedicated subforums for trolls and random bs, which are pretty funny sometimes, but serve as an outlet for the garbage. I browse hacker news... It is what it is, I'm happy with it as a content sharing platform. My biggest gripe is the…

Oh man, have you ever tried to have a political discussion on Facebook? Even citing sources, trying to be diligent... And then, the only response you get is... "that's not right!". And that response is somehow given equal weighting?

I actually wish Facebook, the place where a majority of Internet discussion probably occurs, WOULD institute a dislike button and suppress those comments that get down voted too much (like Hackers News or Reddit).

Right now, it's either a "thumbs up" or a neutral stance, and that's just not enough to accurately describe the level of discourse occurring.

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#105

Post by chrisdbaldwin »

CarolineW wrote: post #29
problems wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate this attitude of "blame everything on the trolls". You can't use your real name on the internet because using your real name on the internet is basically asking for trouble. You have to defend yourself in the same way you have to look at ads and read media critically and don't believe everything someone says on the phone or in the mail. It's really nothing new, it's just on the internet this time. Scamming and…

You say: > People are simply not trustworthy, ... In my experience the vast majority of people are trustworthy. The problem is that the tiny minority of people who are not trustworthy are winning the internet because they have time, and shout loudly. More, some of them do obnoxious and potentially dangerous things. That's why people get upset - because it is a tiny minority that spoil the whole thing. If only we coul…

Sorry to burst your bubble, but citing your experience with people is equivalent to trolling. Your anecdotal evidence doesn't agree with what's been studied in Behavioral Economics.

The problem is not that a tiny minority are untrustworthy; the problem is that a large majority lie (a little bit) often and by nature.

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#106

Post by Barrin92 »

welanes wrote: post #97
ThrustVectoring wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're in the top 1% or 0.1% of filtering for quality, IMO. Go spend some "quality time" on /r/the_donald for a more typical experience.

Yeah, but you don't have to go there. That's the point. Trolls aren't winning the Internet, for the most part they're loitering in those corners of the web you'd expect to find them.

if the internet is supposed to be a truly public platform, that is to say a space where different opinions can collide productively then the internet at the moment is clearly losing.

It's not that the trolls occupy the corners, it's that they occupy the big, visible public spaces of the internet, while everybody else is driven into digital sanctuaries. That clearly is a failure if the stated goal is to genuinely democratise knowledge and discourse.

I'd even go further than the author and say that we're way past a 'potemkin internet with a nice facade'. The facade is pretty darn ugly as well. The kind of stuff people are willing to post under their actual name is pretty scary.

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#107

Post by tmaly »

MR4D wrote: post #49
pervycreeper wrote: post #26

If we define "troll" as anyone who posts inflammatory, bad faith, needlessly aggressive, insulting, false, or otherwise unproductive content, then the entire class of authors of the genre of news article decrying trolling and harassment are themselves trolls. >Of course, this is already happening, just out of sight of most of us Why would they consider that to be such a big problem, if it's not bothering those who ar…

I think it's more of a signal to noise problem. We've had that issue before in society (e.g. the Middle Ages), when information flow was not constructive, and therefore not _additive_. The net result was that society moved sideways, not forward. Contrast that with Victorian England, where large parts of society had "manners", which allowed for information to be constructive, and society (technology, etc) could evolve…

There was an earlier article on HN related to engagement

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/03/how-t...

I think some of this may play into it as well. If everything is written to be inflammatory, it becomes an echo chamber of sorts.

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#108

Post by generic_user »

primitivesuave wrote: post #48

I stopped reading after the third paragraph when I realized the entire basis for this article is a survey given to 1500 "technologists" with a loaded question that basically equates to "is trolling getting better or worse?". First of all, not everyone who could be described as a "technologist" is qualified to answer that question, and people are naturally biased to say things are getting worse. I have seen non-opinio…

I think online journalism as a whole has turned into a form of trolling.

Or maybe we are in a post Journalist world now.

The value of a story is based on how many clicks it gets. Thats what makes these sites money. It does not matter if you click because the story makes you angry or you think its insulting just so long as you click and you get the advertising. And as far as standards go there are none. Just make up some stuff that riles people and come up with a click bait headline and on to the next story.

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#109

Post by boona »

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #73
jknoepfler wrote: post #67

I don't understand this article at all. I participate in two large professional forums (one for poker, one for development). The professionals are winning the internet there. There are dedicated subforums for trolls and random bs, which are pretty funny sometimes, but serve as an outlet for the garbage. I browse hacker news... It is what it is, I'm happy with it as a content sharing platform. My biggest gripe is the…

You're in the top 1% or 0.1% of filtering for quality, IMO. Go spend some "quality time" on /r/the_donald for a more typical experience.

I agree that /r/the_donald is a poor quality experience, but it's analogous and in response to the poor quality experience of the /r/politics. They're both "circlejerks" that don't allow competing views to be posted. So while you may need to take the_donald with a huge grain of salt, if you're only get your news from left wing site like /r/politics, npr, huff po, new york times, and even hacker news for the most part, you could do worse than checking it out. (Though I would recommended Daily Wire, Daily Caller, and Reason as a counter points.)

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#110

Post by KaiserPro »

st3v3r wrote: post #28
KaiserPro wrote: post #7

Sigh The Trolls have been with the internet from the start. I would say that actually they are mostly contained (why? because its really fucking difficult to be anonymous. Plus you are more than likely to be prosecuted for whatever you've done) So whats changed? more people are on platforms like twitter, and seem to think that fake internet points are real. The vast majority of "trolling" is pretty low grade "die", "…

I'm sorry, but this "ignore the trolls" meme has been proven wrong time and again these past few years. It's not a solution.

I'm going to get specific here.

I'm not talking about a bullying campaign that's branched out into the digital world, that is what I would class as actual trolling.

I run a blog that talks about the specifics of labour law. A number of posts resonated with a profession that was going through a tough time. As time drew on, what was professional unity devolved into infighting along two lines: accept a new contract, or not and carry on industrial action.

I advocated the new contract. It was the best offer(in my opinion), went from salary with a paycut and increased hours, to effectively an hourly rate with punitive overtime pay(for the employer)

Now, This is where I supposedly got trolled. I was innundated with comments saying that I had "betrayed an entire profession", "I couldn't add up", "I'd never worked as X what the fuck did I know"

In my posts I swear a lot. Instantly I went from an amusing post with some political points that "really hit the man" to "a dirty troll who's foul language betrays a profession"

I just expressed an opinion.

People engaged with me, and I them on twitter. When I didn't change my opinion, I was a troll. When I used high quality sources, I was a shill.

Unless someone doxxes you, (either in public press, or 4chan) you can just turn it off. Twitter/facebook/email can all be erased.

You do not have to respond. They want a response, to re-enforce their own opinion.

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