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Ex-Trump adviser Flynn seeks immunity for testimony in Russia probe: WSJ

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Re: Ex-Trump adviser Flynn seeks immunity for testimony in Russia probe: WSJ

#101
post #60

Has the United States ever convicted someone on the level of National Security Advisor (i.e., effectively a member of the cabinet, such as Secretary of Defense), or even put them on trial? Petraeus got a slap on the wrist, but for actions while he was a General. In other countries, even the heads of state get put on trial. Off the top of my head, it's happened relatively recently in France and Israel. In the U.S., I…

>...In the U.S., I can't think of even a member of the cabinet being tried; It will be hard to beat the Nixon administration for convictions: 2 attorney generals, chief of staff, 2 white house counsels, undersecretary of transportation, secretary to the president, special counsel to the president, secretary of commerce and the vice president! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_federal_polit...

The undersecretary that you mentioned is now The "Senior Fellow on Ethics and Leadership at the Center for the Study of the Presidency and Congress and Counselor to the Director at the School for Ethics and Global Leadership." [1]

Receiving a senior fellowship in Ethics is quite the turnaround from six months in prison.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egil_Krogh

Re: Ex-Trump adviser Flynn seeks immunity for testimony in Russia probe: WSJ

#102
post #64
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to admit that at this point, I'd just like to see somebody, somewhere, convicted of something, in a way that carries some sort of real consequences (i.e., no "yep, they're guilty, and the penalty is to retire from the public eye with all their ill-gotten gains and enjoying them until the day they die, except maybe if they take a break to write a book about their experiences for a couple million dollars" crap).…

Same deal as white collared crime, the criminals don't pay in any serious way.

What do you mean? I personally know people that received sentences comparable to a rape conviction for white collar crimes.

Re: Ex-Trump adviser Flynn seeks immunity for testimony in Russia probe: WSJ

#103
post #78
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What exactly are we investigating? Collusion between Trump/team and Russia. It's one thing for Russia to mess with an election, it's a vastly different thing if the campaign coordinated with them to do it.

Did Obama coordinate with "Remainers" when he tried to influence Brexit voters with his "back of the queue" speech?

Such a deflection of the topic is unworthy of hacker news. Trump is the president, discussion about Trump's negatives are not an excuse to deflect with "what about Obama", he is not the topic. Giving a speech is in no way comparable to the topic at hand anyway.

Re: Ex-Trump adviser Flynn seeks immunity for testimony in Russia probe: WSJ

#104
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What exactly are we investigating? Collusion between Trump/team and Russia. It's one thing for Russia to mess with an election, it's a vastly different thing if the campaign coordinated with them to do it.

It strikes me as odd that Americans don't seem to mind that a President to some extent might be serving the interests of a foreign power above the interests of the his own citizens. Who would have thought so many Americans would have a love affair with a KGB Agent that is responsible for murder and oppression and for his entire life worked to undermine America and has accomplished that to some extent with this Admini…

Keep in mind he only has a 35% approval rating, most American are bothered greatly by what's going on. He also lost the popular vote, so he won even though more people voted for someone else.

Re: Ex-Trump adviser Flynn seeks immunity for testimony in Russia probe: WSJ

#105
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It strikes me as odd that Americans don't seem to mind that a President to some extent might be serving the interests of a foreign power above the interests of the his own citizens. Who would have thought so many Americans would have a love affair with a KGB Agent that is responsible for murder and oppression and for his entire life worked to undermine America and has accomplished that to some extent with this Admini…

I think that the part you are missing is that the vast majority (like 65%) don't support or respect this President at all. Of all the terrible things the government has done in the past 1 / 10 / 100 years, I don't think that a candidate coordinating with Russia about which fake news to publish is even worth mentioning. If Congress has the guts to investigate the Steele dossier (which alleged Trump traded eased regula…

Treason is not a distraction, it's as serious as a crime gets.

Re: Ex-Trump adviser Flynn seeks immunity for testimony in Russia probe: WSJ

#106
post #17
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What exactly are we investigating? Collusion between Trump/team and Russia. It's one thing for Russia to mess with an election, it's a vastly different thing if the campaign coordinated with them to do it.

If "messed with" the election just means misleading propaganda, then is it really an issue if they coordinated with them? How is it any different than hiring a PR firm based in another country?

> then is it really an issue if they coordinated with them

Yes, it is.

> How is it any different than hiring a PR firm based in another country?

One is treason, one is not.

Re: Ex-Trump adviser Flynn seeks immunity for testimony in Russia probe: WSJ

#107
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not an adult response.

Why? Because it doesn't fit your world view and what the media is feeding to you? The left is throwing a temper tantrum, at the same time hand waving away any possible wrongdoing by their members.

Because you're deflecting from the topic. If you can't discuss Trump without deflecting to Hillary, you're not acting in good faith and having a real discussion. Not to mention that you're repeating claims that's been disproved and cleared.

Re: Ex-Trump adviser Flynn seeks immunity for testimony in Russia probe: WSJ

#108
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Because it doesn't fit your world view and what the media is feeding to you? The left is throwing a temper tantrum, at the same time hand waving away any possible wrongdoing by their members.

Because you're deflecting from the topic. If you can't discuss Trump without deflecting to Hillary, you're not acting in good faith and having a real discussion. Not to mention that you're repeating claims that's been disproved and cleared.

Then lets discuss Trump without deflecting to unproven and debunked Russian claims.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_20...

Former Acting CIA Director Michael Morell has stated that he has seen no evidence of collusions between Trump and the Kremlin. "On the question of the Trump campaign conspiring with the Russians here, there is smoke, but there is no fire, at all," Morell said.[156]

James Clapper, the Director of National Intelligence under President Obama, said there was no evidence of any collusion between the Trump campaign and Russian operatives as of January 2017 when the intelligence community issued its report on the subject.[157]

Here are the facts of today:

Trump was elected President of the United States on November 9th, 2016

The Dow Jones is up 2800+, since Nov 9th.

Trump has issued 19 Executive Orders, 16 Presidential memoranda, 11 Presidential proclamations, and 1 Presidential notice.

Re: Ex-Trump adviser Flynn seeks immunity for testimony in Russia probe: WSJ

#109
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you're deflecting from the topic. If you can't discuss Trump without deflecting to Hillary, you're not acting in good faith and having a real discussion. Not to mention that you're repeating claims that's been disproved and cleared.

Then lets discuss Trump without deflecting to unproven and debunked Russian claims. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_20... Former Acting CIA Director Michael Morell has stated that he has seen no evidence of collusions between Trump and the Kremlin. "On the question of the Trump campaign conspiring with the Russians here, there is smoke, but there is no fire, at all," Morell said.[156] James…

> Here are the facts of today:

None of those three facts are remotely relevant to whether or not Trump colluded with Russians, you are again being partisan and even mentioning those unrelated facts proves you're too partisan to have a real discussion. And smoke is more than enough to justify a proper investigation.

Re: Ex-Trump adviser Flynn seeks immunity for testimony in Russia probe: WSJ

#110
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did Obama coordinate with "Remainers" when he tried to influence Brexit voters with his "back of the queue" speech?

Such a deflection of the topic is unworthy of hacker news. Trump is the president, discussion about Trump's negatives are not an excuse to deflect with "what about Obama", he is not the topic. Giving a speech is in no way comparable to the topic at hand anyway.

It sets a precedent that the left does want to acknowledge. There was likely collusion between Obama and "Remainers". Obama made a speech with a threat that was intended to directly influence a vote in a foreign country. Where was the outrage from the Democrats and media when this was done?

Former Acting CIA Director Michael Morell has stated that he has seen no evidence of collusions between Trump and the Kremlin. "On the question of the Trump campaign conspiring with the Russians here, there is smoke, but there is no fire, at all," Morell said.[156]

James Clapper, the Director of National Intelligence under President Obama, said there was no evidence of any collusion between the Trump campaign and Russian operatives as of January 2017 when the intelligence community issued its report on the subject.[157]

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